Led Zeppelin: Original CDs vs Remasters

So if I get an original US PG double CD it would have the cough, probably?

 

I'd say maybe rather than probably

 

Oh man. It's like the lottery of masterings. I need to know how to find a good IV and a good PG?

 

Wasn't it only the first pressings of PG that lacked the cough? If that's the case, and the mistake was corrected within a year, I would guess that 80-90% of copies DO have the cough, given that the Diament mastering was in print for about seven years.

 

Unfortunately, there's no way to no for sure, or at least none I've come across. There are tons of threads here on the topic. Use the Google search with

site:http://www.stevehoffman.tv/
​

after it to look around further.

As for the PG with the missing cough, yes it's missing something that was originally there, but it's still just a cough tacked on the end of a track. The rest of the music is there and sounds exactly the same as the version with the cough. I know if I were looking for an album, I'd want the original version with everything intact, but if you did buy a copy and discover it didn't have the cough, you'd still find the rest of the album very listenable.

 

How about the 2 box sets with random track order? That's all I own and don't plan on replacing any of it. Were they thrown together with the original U.S. CD masters?

 

No, these were the original versions of the Marino remasters done in 1990 (and possibly 1993. It's still not clear if the tracks not on the first set and subsequently released on the second crop set box in 1993 were remastered during the same spring 1990 sessions George Marino did with Jimmy Page sitting in or later. We do know a couple of tracks were re-remastered in 1993 to compile the original album order of LZI). In any case, we can definitively say that the original 1980's Led Zeppelin CDs were never used for any commercially relased compilations.

 

Cool. What about IV? That one seems harder to figure out.

 

Here is an easy guide:

IV = all made in Japan and made in West Germany discs, as well all "Targets" have correct channels
PG = all made in the US discs [SRC matrix or otherwise] have the cough

There may be some US IV's that are good and some Japan PG's that are good as well, but why take a chance when the 2 line guide I wrote above is definitive.

 

Well with IV if you get the one with reversed channels, just rip the files, reverse their channels and burn a CD-R for listening and you'll be good to go.

 

Cool. Thanks, ricks.

 

There's also a bit of guitar playing missing along with that cough.

 

True but nothing that's essential to a song.

 

I found a good PG and a good IV both for $25. I hope that was not too much?

 

Thank you! I know about the same mastering and 0's and 1's......I know that it's only a matter of material. I'm just happy that FINALLY I will be able to hear by myself if there is a difference or not between the two versions.

I'll post a little review here when I receive the SHM.

Thanks!

 

So...I did a blind test comparing Presence (Definitive mini LP) and Presence SHM-CD.

Result #1: I heard a difference and I have been able to determine which was which.

Result #2: the difference is not enormous. The SHM is a LITTLE more revealing (bass, highs etc...).

Result #3: does it worth the extra $$$? In my point of view yes it is.

Bottom line: there is a difference between SHM-CD and regular CD's but one needs to be a real completist or an avid collector to NEED the SHM's.


Thank you!

 

Case by case, and as mentioned, sometimes song by song. I just listen to the original Lps, rarely play the CDs unless it's party time and my imbidding a cocktail or two or three makes me leary of using the manual tonearm on the Thorens when the man servant has the night off

 

2-3 months later...

I listen more and more the remastered ones. I'm kind of 50-50 now. Right now I really like the remastered version of IV (not to mention the SHM Presence which is awesome!).

 

I prefer the original Diament cds. They sound better at higher volumes than the Marino remasters (in general the remasters do sound crisper at lower volumes).

I think it's worth mentioning that the original cds were created from tapes that were eq'd for vinyl.

Perhaps one of the reasons why many prefer the originals is because they are sourced from the same eq'd for vinyl tape as the familiar LPs .

 

Not true, except for the last two albums. From what Zal has posted here, it is very likely that most of the albums were actually mastered from the same tapes for the original and remastered CDs.

I have to ask, when you post things like this, what source are you using?

 

I read it on Wikipedia (not necessarily a good source, I know), but the original source is:

Mat Snow, “Apocalypse Then”, Q magazine, December 1990, p. 74.

What is your source that it's only the last two albums that were sourced from eq'd for vinyl tapes?

Barry Diament is frequently on the forum. He could be asked if he remembers if the tapes he used were the existing eq'd for vinyl tapes.

I imagine that would be the closest we'd be able to get to a definitive answer.

 

I'm very late to the game here, but here's my take -

I have the original CDs through Physical Graffiti.
Bought the 1990 box, and from the first snare-drum hit of "Whole Lotta Love" I got SO pissed off. There it was, unnecessary brick-wall limiting. I haven't listened to the box since. Total crap.

Now, my major beef with the Diament CDs is Zep I. Someone didn't think to check the azimuth - it's way off. Just listen to it in mono and you'll see. Now listen to the original vinyl -it's fine. And guess what? Marino's is off too. Which means Marino took the 1630 from the original rather than re-transfer the analog master. Feh.

Another one is that he chases fades on Zep II. Like "Whole Lotta Love." But of course, this was in the dark ages when tape hiss was a sin on CDs <G>.

Here's something amusing about the original CDs - they are flat transfers to 1630, direct from the analog deck -nothing but "monster cable" between the deck and the 1630, according to a very good source. So with all the "advancements" in A/D technology since the Sony 1630 the best sounding transfer is the original?

(of course, if it was a "monster cable only" connection between the decks, how would he manage to chase fades? Unless he did the unthinkable - which was to use the 1630 editor after the transfer to chase the fade....gee, more bad technology that still seems to sound good...)

Well, perhaps every remaster since Diament IS a transfer is sourced from the 1630. There's a really easy way to figure that out.....

And this also brings up what is most crucial about remastering when it comes to decisions on EQ and compression - it's all about aesthetics. It's about understanding what to apply - if anything - to the original master. It might sound great flat. It might not. All I know is I can crank up the originals and they sound great. No so with the remasters.

So "Physical Graffiti" was also a flat transfer. Which is why it sounds so bad.
Why? Because it was mixed badly. Well, and a nice "aesthetic" that they frequently used in past albums was NOT used - which was drum compression. PG sure as hell could have used some.

Thoughts? Reactions?

 

My source is Barry who mastered the CDs. Barry has already chimed in several times. I have to admit that his statements were not all that definitive, but read for yourself:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=1770231&postcount=117
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=1867623&postcount=181
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2916703&postcount=83
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2996990&postcount=35
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3547524&postcount=454

 

Ok - Thanks.

So the only ones that might be from eq'd for vinyl tapes are ITTOD, Presence, and Coda. Otherwise, as far as Barry remembers, they were sourced from flat copies of the original master tapes.

Do you know if the original master tapes (not flat copies) were used for the Marino/Page remasters?

 

Jimmy Page said in an interview with Guitar World regarding the 'Crop Circles' & 'Box Set 2' - "We approached Set 2 the same way we approached the four-CD set released before. Engineer George Marino and I transferred the
original analog tapes to a digital format, then we used some modern
EQ's to make them sparkle'' http://www.iem.ac.ru/zeppelin/docs/interviews/page_93.gw