Led Zeppelin reissues - what went wrong?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Guy Gadbois, Nov 21, 2016.

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  1. JPJs Bass Guitar

    JPJs Bass Guitar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, UK
    Depends on what side of the fence you're on ....

    If you're Jimmy Page and your goal was to have new vinyl copies available to anyone who wants them, and raise your personal profile whilst doing it, it's a job well done.

    If you're Robert Plant or John Paul Jones, you probably couldn't care less and haven't thought much about it.

    If you're Jason Bonham, you're delighted - more Zeppelin fans means more folks attending the 'Led Zeppelin Experience'.

    If you've never heard a Zeppelin album and have just bought a new turntable and you fancy giving the legendary LZ a go, you can now listen to LZIII and play with the cool wheel on the LP sleeve, so you're likely happy.

    If you're already a fan who is interested in hearing a familiar album with some 'extras' thrown in to entice another purchase, then chances are you're not too disappointed. They were only 'extras' anyway. It's all about the original album after all.

    If you're a hardcore fan with multiple copies of the same albums across all formats, jonesing for the Hidden Vaults of The Mighty Zeppelin finally being plundered bare, packaged complete with accurate original artwork, then you're likely disappointed.

    Me, I'm somewhere between the last two. Could be better, but it could always be worse!
     
    vanye, Andrew Russe, Tony-A and 6 others like this.
  2. If I Can Dream_23

    If I Can Dream_23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Great post. This sums up my view of the remasters as well.

    I very much enjoyed them overall and, being such a huge Zeppelin fan, any alternate take or slight remix was a grateful addition. I really wasn't expecting anything radical in terms of the companion discs. My biggest letdown was probably just the fact that the companion disc for Graffiti wasn't more comprehensive in giving us an alternate take or remix of most every track, not just 7 or 8 of them.

    Other than that, I eagerly gobbled up the packages. Aesthetically, they were also beautifully done. I even now prefer the look of the negative photo image used on the back covers.

    So, overall, I thought they were a welcome treat. Yet, like you said, it depends on what one was expecting from them.
     
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  3. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Davis, the guy who mastered the catalog admits he didn't decode some of the Dolby encoded tapes properly. He went with eq moves instead.

    He also widened the stereo image on some tracks after jimmy had told him to give a bigger spread to Gallows Pole. He admits he snuck some of this by Jimmy.

    Of course, he also used his limited digital versions to cut from. We got a more clinical sound. Are the reissues awful? Not at all. They do the job, pretty much but I think they could have been bettered with a more purest approach.

    As for the artwork. The PG cover looks really off color wise and the "deluxe " editions don't always have the full original album art. That's a fail.

    Getting the bonus tracks was nice but even there there are serious omissions and head scratchers. At least it got me to go through my boot archives and put together some nice "lost track" comps for myself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    audiotom and yarbles like this.
  4. tkl7

    tkl7 Agent Provocateur

    Location:
    Lewis Center, OH
    Is this thread satire?
     
  5. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Exactly this. Yes, the covers are nice, the vinyl heavy, clean sounding. And they sound like digital, not analog.
     
    Marc Perman likes this.
  6. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    WHAT?? This is some real half A$$ed mastering. Oh well...at least we have our old AAA releases.
     
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  7. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    That's what he said in an interview he gave . Said he didn't like the sound with the Dolby decoding so he just bypassed it and went with eq to fix it to his liking.
     
  8. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I'm not a Davis fan, nor many other UK mastering engineers. (What happened to these guys?) None of them are as good as Chris Bellman, Bernie Grundman, Krieg Wonderlich, Kevin Gray or Ryan Smith at cutting records.
     
  9. zeuhl

    zeuhl Forum Resident

    The one thing I noticed is that the first batch (I, II, III) had significant vinyl quality problems. Clicks, pops and occasional jumps. Cleanings were needed. The second batch with IV and Physical Graffiti in particular had terrible vinyl quality control. Many copies of IV got returned at my local record store with multiple skips. Physical Graffiti needed to be cleaned three times before it played without ten skips on it. This isn't what a new LP should do when you just popped the shrink wrap. They learned their lesson by the third batch which came out pretty solid, clean and zero skips or pops.
    Soundwise, they are all improvements over my original US pressings.
     
  10. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I think Jimmy got the best rate from Davis. He said cost factored into going digital with the vinyl. One digital source for all the formats. I agree, Davis' work is a long ways from the audiophile approach of the guys you mention.
     
  11. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Cost?? The guy must be rolling in money. Not to mention the quantities they just sold. I mean how much did he actually save by using Davis?
     
  12. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    That is disappointing that Jimmy factored cost into it. Clearly he's minted and should have done a proper all analog job for the loyal fans. No need to be cheap when he's likely got millions in the bank.
     
  13. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Who knows? Was surprising to read that quote but they don't call him led wallet for nothing.:p
     
  14. moofassa_ca

    moofassa_ca Senior Member

    Muffled? I find the Red more natural sounding with plenty of bottom end. Robert's voice sounds like he's in the room. The reissue (to my ears) sounds brighter.
     
  15. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    That's exactly my issue with most of the new remasters, a clinical flat sound compared to my original best pressing copies. I'm really not a fan of the new remaster of III particularly.
     
  16. ronm

    ronm audiofreak

    Location:
    southern colo.
    I pretty much stay away from all this .I just listen to what I have for the most part.What makes it easy for me is my prime listening days of LZ are behind me.
     
    audiotom likes this.
  17. mbrownp1

    mbrownp1 Forum Resident

    There is nothing wrong with the sound. If anything, I wish there was more bonus material, but they never really left much on the cutting room floor so to speak.
     
  18. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    I didn't even get a free download code with my LZIII. Bummer.
     
  19. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    Correction: Hundreds of millions...
     
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  20. mikedifr0923

    mikedifr0923 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    And if you dont want/cant deal with the expense/hassle of finding originals or early pressings I assume these work as well? I havent heard any of the reissues yet. I did buy a used IV for $30 (have to check everything to see what pressing it was) just for ****s and giggles and have something to compare to. Havent had a chance to listen yet though.

    Otherwise, agree with your assessment!
     
  21. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    The "Led Wallet" seems to be okay with remastering the catalog once every 4 to 8 years...:agree:
     
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  22. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    I bought a great sounding, quiet Physical Graffiti LP at a completely reasonable price. Sure, we could nitpick, but in general, I'm really happy that I was finally able to complete my Zep studio collection, since PG was the one album that had always evaded me.
     
  23. Vinyl Socks

    Vinyl Socks The Buzz Driver

    Location:
    DuBois, PA
    That is an excellent question. We might be only able to speculate. Maybe one of our resident engineers could explain the cost difference between putting tape on a machine, cueing up the 24/192 digital masters, then cutting a vinyl record. I would think that equipment is definitely going to vary, but a high-end cutting facility might have that equipment. And how many human work-hours separate AAA-cutting from digital-to-vinyl cutting?
    I don't have a reference point for the monetary statistics of such work, myself.
     
  24. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Of Course it is tk!
    Now how about those Really Bad Dark Rolling Stones covers in the new mono box? :D:wave::help::evil::rant::whistle:

    The Beave
     
  25. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Page has used Sterling in NY and they have great equipment for AAA. I watched a video from Intervention Records, a company that doesn't have the resources of Zep, and they showed Ryan Smith at Sterling mastering a record and SACD for the same title. The vinyl was Cut AAA.
     
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