Led Zeppelin Remasters in 2014+ to include 2nd disc of bonus material (Pt 8)

Post of the year! ROFL

 

Just to add to the confusion, I am pretty sure that they were two different analog sources / tape transfers involved for the Marino HOTH side 1.

At least for one song, TSRTS, with had a huge dropout on the left channel at the very end of the track on the crop circles version and on the 2/3 cd set Remasters. When The Complete Studio Recordings & HOTH came out in 1993/1994, the dropout was gone.

When you put the two different Marino versions of TSRTS side by side on a multitrack session, you can notice that they loose synchronicity, more and more, as the song is playing. This is generally a very good indication that a different analog transfer was made; in this case between 1990 & 1993, at least for the first HOTH track. We can presume that a different master (better or worst copy) was then used for the second version. The dropout was not on the Diament version, but the tape could have been damaged between the 80's and May 1990 (if indeed the same tape was used by both).

Now I remember reading an interview with Jimmy Page from the early 90's where *from what I remember* he was specifically complaining about the wrong tape being used by Atlantic for an entire side of HOTH. Again, if I remember correctly, he was talking about the Diament CD. I don't remember any other details.

 

The amount of pushback against anything that goes against the gospel of Davis and Page is the most disturbing aspect of this thread to me. It coincides through many parts of this continuing thread with something I have interpreted as too often an ongoing agenda that I read as marketing in a promotional campaign for these remasters. It then becomes more destructive than constructive to the actual work, imo, and after eight parts, can be slightly offputting to simply good intentions in so far as praising and enjoying them for what they are. Again, I don't quite get the pushback against some observations and explanations that have been a great service to this thread, but then I guess in a way, I do get it.

 

Or maybe just a lot of us like them. If you look around the Zeppelin threads here with any objectivity, there's never really been a forum consensus. Heck even our host trashed the original CDs that some consider so great

If so many people like these new ones then I'd say it says something about the quality of the remasters. You make it sound like there's some kind of conspiracy but maybe it's just that they're really good!

 

And...what about it? What does that have to do with the discussion at hand (HOTH source)?

 

For some reason people get butt hurt and think that their cds/lps somehow now sound possibly inferior simply because a technical issue is being discussed. See this time and again in these discussions.

No ones saying "these sound like crap" because these issues could very possibly be true.

 

In all honesty, I haven't listened to the 2014 CDs, or LPs.

I've been downloading the 24/96 files of the remasters...and I can say without any doubt they render all previous incarnations of these albums completely obsolete to me (and I've owned pretty much all of them at one time or another).

 

Please, I'm all for people liking what they hear and enjoying it, regardless of what I think it sounds like. I try to reflect that often in my posts. That's one reason I prefer to praise or be neutral than criticize. There should be no question about that. No, imo, only with an overly protective reaction to what I wrote could one come up with the term conspiracy and project it in such a way. Also, I assume that the 'you' was meant as 'one' re: the first part, because then you would seem to me to be questioning my objectivity, which I don't think you are . And trust me, now that I have a few minutes to look back, I am happy that you like them so much since you are such a devoted fan.

 

Ťhe thread is not all about your theory on HOTH! In fact your observations merit a thread of their own.

 

All this theorising, argument and counter-argument is making my head swim...

All I know is, I prefer the Davis remasters at low to moderate volume, but for crankability, especially through headphones, the Diaments (and even the much-maligned Sidore) are still my digital go-tos.

 

These new CDs were not put out to be audiophile issues. They were put out for money. For me, all eight threads are a moot point.

 

I wouldn't even bother defending your speakers. Honeybunch likes the Marinos and seems quite intent on impugning the systems and/or rooms of anyone who doesn't sh

As @Stefan noted, you are mistaking what the discussion at hand is. This thread is about the remasters. At page 37 of the 8th part of this thread, there are several sub-topics being discussed.

But you knew that already.

 

If you write something criticizing "pushback against anything that goes against the gospel of Davis and Page" then say that you interpret it to be an "an ongoing agenda" that you "read as marketing in a promotional campaign for these remasters" do you really expect us to believe you're being neutral? Those are rather loaded words! It may not have been your intention, but you (dee) seem to be denigrating the majority of posters in this thread who are praising these remasters, as if our opinions can't possibly be sound but are instead some sort of a promotional campaign. In fact, you seem to be questioning our objectivity and integrity.

At any rate, as Hodgo has asked, let's try to keep the conversation here civil and not resort to denigrating others.

 

I do like the 24/96 downloads but for my tastes they're a tiny bit brighter than I'd like. They actually remind me a lot of the Classic Records reissues on vinyl. Those were good but a bit goosed on the frequency extremes (plus there were issues with LZII and III). They were fun for really seeing into the music, like shining a flashlight on the dark corners in the mix, but for overall listening, I find the Davis vinyl versions work better as they seem to strike the perfect balance for me and sound a lot like early pressings. For example, I have an early US pressing of Physical Graffiti that has a lot of what our host likes to refer to as midrange magic. I get that same sound from the Davis vinyl (other than the two Pallas pressings I've had so far with distortion on the first LP. Still waiting for replacement no. 2 to arrive). Same thing with the others. A couple of weeks ago, I did my own shootout among the Classic LZIV, a UK Pecko and the Davis. The latter seemed like a nice compromise between the brightness of the Classic and the "warmth" of the Pecko. Once I got a decent pressing of the Davis HOTH, it sounded a lot like my RL copy. I just hope Pallas gets their act together for the final three releases in this series as I don't feel like paying the premium and potential import duties for UK pressings.

 

+1000

Can the gorts please, please, please make that whole dick-measuring about 3-4 secs of HOTH and all that hoopla into a SEPARATE thread ?

 

@dee was specifically referring to the pushback over the HOTH tape issue when you responded with "Or maybe just a lot of us like them", so yes, this particular discussion *was* about HOTH.

Nobody is "dick-measuring about 3-4 secs".

 

I have said my piece, I don't regret it, I disagree with your post, I don't like it one bit, I have no interest right now in continuing a dialogue with you Stefan regarding it, nor do I expect to in the future, and I stand by what I wrote then and especially why and what motivated me to do so. It might behoove both of us to get off our golden horses and follow Hodgo's advice that you cite. So, again, to reiterate, on a side note that was also meant as a grace note and still is, glad you have been enjoying the remasters of your favorite band.

 

Jimmy Page doesn't really need the money he stated he wanted them to sound the best they ever had. In my opinion he succeeded.

 

People other than Page make money off of these, but I am glad you like them.

 

Yes but he doesn't need to give up his time to focus on that. He could have a did a million other things.

I think his overall concept for the project failed as I think his view on the companion discs was too personal but in terms of audio replay I think even despite the contention they bring I would say the majority recognise they are the best available.

 

All we are going to know is that to different tape sources were used for side 1 of Houses of the Holy. Everything else is speculation.

 

Not to start an argument, but while that statement may be technically true, if it's a "majority" it is certainly not overwhelmingly so.

Compared to the Marino's, yes. Compared to the Diament's, well...

 

Sorry to offend you. When someone is posting something like this I really don't see how asking what their expertise is could possibly be offensive. I don't know this person and he is extremely forceful that his opinion is correct. After all, Steve did not post this. I was upfront and said I did not hear it. That is my expertise and I stated it. I don't think for one minute that his analysis should be accepted without explicity stating how he derived it. That is how things are done. He does not have the tapes as far as I can see.

 

This always amuses me. The majority of this forum preferred the Marinos before Barry Diament became a member here. You can probably find the poll thread if you do a search - and note that it was before the forum was "flooded" with the "remaster lovers" some people are complaining about.

 

Maybe. But I specifically found this forum while doing a Google search for anyone else who agreed with my opinion that the Zeppelin CD's "didn't sound right". I'd only ever had the Marino's at the time (cassettes before that) and had never even heard of Barry Diament or his CDs. I bought a few after reading posts and, though I've tried, have never found another CD version that sounds "better" to me. If I had found something more pleasing to my ears, I'd be out here in a heartbeat defending it.