Led Zeppelin RL Robert Ludwig cut- help needed

They look just like the initials on my copies, with a short footed 'L'. But it does raise a good point - I wonder if people will resort to faking RL initials to crank some dough out of a standard LZ II? I hope not. The narrower dead waxes of originals should help... but only if one knows about that...

 

Hello Again RnR. I found the same initials on my copies. I have no suspicions that they were added later for profit as I found them all VG+ and better for no more than $1 each. The 'RL' initials on LZ's 'HOTH' have the same style initials too, as I remember.
Thanks for informing me a while back about the varying width of the deadwax on side 2. I have all three different cuts now. They all sound great.
Thanks also for the info on best sounding copies of LZ I and III. I finally found 2 sided AT/GP's of both.

 

That's The Way the RL Goes...

Bummer for you, but saved the least of the rest of us a lot of future heart break and funds....

 

Ok, cool. Thanks for the info!

 

My narrow dead wax copy has the RL similar to the image above as well.

 

The RL's I've seen have been neatly pressed into the dead wax in perfect block letters.

 

The "RL"s on HOTH are not like the ones in this thread. They are the more common ones with the R and L close together and the L having a long horizontal leg.

I suppose it's possible he mastered more than one set for Atlantic but why would he use different styles of writing his initials?

Doug

 

Don't worry. Most of us knew it too.

 

My UK copy of 'HOTH' has almost identical initials on Side 1 with an 'obvious' short horizontal leg on the L. Also, they're the same distance apart though the 'R' is a slight bit less angular.
I really don't think his initials are that diverse considering how one cannot rest the heel of their hand while inscribing initials in deadwax due to the fragile nature and close proximity of the freshly cut grooves.
Also, Ludwig is not alone in his changing deadwax inscriptions. Wally Trauggot has both 'Wally' and 'Wly' as his inscriptions. I've seen a few variations with the Allen Zentz inscription, a separate A and Z, A and Z touching at the bottom, and the top of the Z crossing the A. Ludwig is also known for the name change from Robert to Bob at some point after 1980. Perhaps variance is a part of his personality.
Ultimately, I personally doubt anyone has forged the 'RL' inscription for profit, though I suppose it is possible.

 

I have an RL Zep 2 for sale in the classified

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=203133

 

Matrix and initials are inscribed on the mother that makes the stamper, they don't initial every LP individually.

 

I wrote "freshly CUT grooves" implying the Lacquer being signed, not "freshly PRESSED grooves" implying each LP being signed. I'm positive the Lacquer is what is signed by the Cutting/Mastering Engineer, not the Mother Stamper or any other Metal Parts down the line.

 

Correct. Although with Atco/Atlantic the metal masters appear to be subsequently etched with additional lacquer letters to mark additional mothers being made. For example a -C with faintly visible duplicate C's following it.

 

Exactly what I was thinking, which is why I specified 'Cutting/Mastering Engineer' in my return statement. I obviously need to be very thorough around here.
I think the reason these additional etchings are so faint is because they are etched during the Metal Plating stages, as you well know.
Then there's the LZ 4 and Yes Fragile LPs with both Porky/Pecko and Piros' 'AT/GP' in the deadwax. I'm guessing the lacquers were imported from the UK and approved by Piros before Metal Plating...

 

In one of Michael Fremmer's DVDs they show a guy etching his initials in the deadwax. There is a flat metal bar of sorts that goes over the LP where the grooves are - it's supported at the edges such that the bar does not touch the LP. The etcher's hand's heel rests on this metal bar.

 

Kevin Gray scribing side one lacquer of Jazz Impressions Of Black Orpheus without using any hand support device:

 

Great Info! I'll guess this is done while the Lacquer is still on the Lathe's Platter.
I wonder if most or all Cutting Lathes have this feature. There are some here who could tell us. It still seems like it might require a bit more care than writing with a pen and paper.
I still doubt that anyone would inscribe a counterfeit 'RL' on a pressed LZ 2 to increase it's value. The rest of the deadwax information would not match and
give it away anyway, at least to anyone who does the research.

edit: Hey! Great post/picture there Wilkie. Thanks!

 

They can be hand scribed either free hand or with a support, die stamped, and I believe by hand using using a template or tracer.

 

Thanks, but forum member, Greg Roe, took the picture, and Steve originally posted it. I'm just the recycle guy.

 

I got a question if this post is still going. I have downloaded a CD discography from Dr. Ebbetts of LZ I through IV. These are cd rips. I have the II cd that is an Atlantic SD 8236. The cd has these two lines on the bottom of the cd:

(ST-A-691711)
(ST-A-691672)

I want to know if this is the famous Bob Ludwig RL cut. It was made in 1841 Broadway, New York. I don't know if the RL was only made for vinlys or also for CD.

The Labels for all are:

Led Zeppelin I: SD 8216
Led Zeppelin II: SD 8236
Led Zeppelin III: SD 7201
Led Zeppelin IV: SD 7208

If anyone knows anything about any of these ones please let me know. I want to know how they are rated. If anyone has any suggestions for ** noticeably** better sounding CD or VINLYs let me know.

Thanks,
Gabe

 

A) it is vinyl, not "vinyls" (or "vinlys" )
B) the RL cut is only available on vinyl (no way to tell if Dr. Ebbetts ripped an RL cut without looking at the deadwax of the record he used unless he specifically mentioned it somewhere)
c) the original Led Zeppelin II cd was mastered by forum friend and favorite Barry Diament

 

I passed on a hybrid HOTH today. Side one was an RL. Side two was a GP. I was tempted.

 

I don't think the Dr. rip is an RL. I recall coming across it once and the details specifically mentioned it was not an RL.

RL rips are floating around though.

BTW there are rips out there using better sources than what Dr. Ebbetts used.

 

I've also seen a rather interesting Pantograph system used, to 'gear down' the scribing to a suitable size. It came with a set of 'fonts' of letters and numbers that could be traced. When I've seen 'engineer' scribing done on video, it's always been freehand directly on the lacquer (yikes).

 

Okay. Thanks for the help on that guys. I do have the barry diament LZ II cd which i do think sounds better. I'll keep searching for the vinyl rl rips.

Gabe