Let's discuss nice racks

Bill - You always give me great advice. Let's say I'm budgeting $6K to use between power and an equipment rack. Given my current setup (crappy rack, decent DYI isolation for CD source and phono stage, Gingko Cloud under my amp, and Mapleshade under turntable) and power situation (nothing really addressing power, Urban setting that's likely very noisy since my block is a tech startup hub) how would you allocate these funds?

You think it's best (best = highest sonic ROI) to over invest in one area and leave the other for later or split the funds?

Others can chime in as well. I'm leaning towards ignoring the rack yet again given the costs I'm seeing for the high end stuff in the config I need and just addressing my power like a boss!

 

Brian, thanks for the kudos, but the greatest strength (and failing) of the Internet is the ability to do all this virtually. To me, I'd want to hear your system in your room, with the program material you like, and then figure out where the weaknesses are- not just in some absolute sense, but from your perspective, since it is your system and has to be to your taste. (I'm leaving aside the whole 'accuracy' thing for the moment, which we can argue about 'til the cows come home).
Assuming a given set of components, I'd say more value comes from proper set-up and 'dialing in' - something that costs almost nothing but time and effort.
From there, I'd have a few questions- did you ever sort out your various turntable problems?
I have no idea what your 'rack' is contributing to the proceedings, positive or negative, but I don't discount the value of good isolation, decoupling, etc. (Again, this comes in many shades, and one man's tuning on one component in one system is not something you can extrapolate to other components, in a different system). Youv'e already done a fair amount of DIY isolation. What if you take the stuff off the rack altogether- for example, put the TT on a sturdy piece of furniture with your isolation platform - temporarily, not permanently- what effect does that have on the sound?
Ditto, getting the amp and phono stage off the rack and using your isolation platforms or whatever you are using under them- dunno if you have a carpeted floor- if so, you need to work around that-
Notice that, so, far, we haven't spend any $....
Power conditioning or regen- I don't particularly like to use it, but you may have to- that's certainly something a dealer should be able to let you borrow to try.
So, you can see for yourself, in your room, with your ears, what gives you the biggest return. Frankly, power and gear isolation both have to be addressed, but you may decide that one delivers more bang for the buck than the other in terms of priorities right now, in your system.
I tend not to do things in half-steps. I'm a big believer in buying something great that I can keep for a long time, rather than thinking, ok, I'll buy this now, but plan to upgrade it next year, etc. It costs more in the long run. And, I'm a big believer in previously owned gear from the high-end flavor of the month club. Not sure if that helps; and I'm certainly not the only voice here. What I do see on gear-centric fora is 'if you buy X, your whole system will change dramatically.'
This is the 'red wagon in the shop window' syndrome. If only you had X, you'd have sonic bliss. That lasts about as long as it takes for the charge to show up on your monthly Amex bill. By then, you are onto the next 'sonic leap forward' as part of an endless merry-go-round.
The other mantra I like is do nothing til you've listened to stuff in your system. You can read all kinds of crap on the Inter-web about how great some piece of gear, tweak, wire or whatever is, but it don't mean poop unless you think so, in your system. It isn't that others are necessarily b s 'ing, but they have different systems and rooms, and may need different 'shadings' to make their system really deliver. (A brighter sounding cable, for example). That's all I got, yo.

 

Would that be Quadraspire stuff? I priced it on Needle Dr. $2300 for a double-wide three-rack setup. I think I prefer Mapleshade, but shop-on.

 

Sounds like you are suggesting that I take the rack out of the room and just see what everything sounds like on my floors (concrete) on top of the DIY or purchased isolation. I'm guessing that's to see if the rack is causing any resonance issues. I can definitely try that, however, the system is having a good day so I'm hesitant to move anything right now.

Your post did just give me an idea. I could easily spend $500 on a wall mount for the turntable, position it in a null point directly behind the speaker and use the Mapleshade isolation. I suspect that would help as much as an expensive rack.

I'm headed over to my dealer right now to discuss the turntable issue I've been having. I think I mentioned in our private convo that I may just go ahead and upgrade to the Classic 3 since that's my dream table anyway. You should message me if you think there are other tables at that price point that I should consider that will be more likely to avoid any distortion issues (which I seem to be VERY sensitive to). As much as I love VPI, other threads I've read recently have alluded to uni-pivots being naturally prone to distortion issues, though I haven't read anything where the Classic 3 has had those issues.

 

Second hand Mana, plus they made killer wall-shelves too

 

Some of those wood racks look pretty nice but the prices are absolutely outrageous! What's the justification for $2000-3000 for a simple post and shelf construction?

 

What do you want from a rack? To accommodate you equipment. To isolate the equipment, from each other and from external vibrations. To look good? I like the Barry Diament idea of inner tube and ball bearings. It works extremely well on my headphone system and the inner tubes aren't that visible.

You could used the rack in post 23, perhaps with Stillpoint type feet instead of cones, add additional shelves for each piece of equipment so it looks something like this:

http://www.hifiracks.co.uk/hi-fi-racks/2/podium-reference

The rack with the 'double shelves'. You then put the inner tube between the pairs of double shelves using Rollerblock Juniors under the equipment.

I don't know if this would work with turntables though, which is your most important consideration.

 

There is a lot more to the Box rack than that. Call Anthony and ask him. He won't give you the recipe but he will give you some idea why his products cost what they do.

 

So it's more than nice wood glued and screwed together? I don't care enough to call the guy and waste his time; that's why I asked the question here!

 

Didn't realize til I looked him up that the Box guy is also the fellow that builds DeVore's speaker cabinets. The Dagogo review per Jack Roberts, who is into the Shindo stuff, said it made his gear sound more alive. I get that. And I suppose if you didn't think the 'tuning' of the rack was suited to a particular component, now or in the future, you could play with additional footers, decouplers, platforms, etc. under a specific piece of gear. It certainly is nice looking....

 

There's a review on Dagogo that gives a nice overview. Just plug in Box Audio and the review should come up on your inter-thingie.

 

Unless you can build it yourself, quality furniture is expensive.

 

Yes.

 

Reading that review and his website, it doesn't seem so. Laminated wood shelves, nice wood. Very pretty and, I'm sure, sturdy but $3700? Sorry, I don't see it.

 

Simple then, don't buy it!

 

+1.

I bought one and it will be the last piece I sell.

 

I thought the Zoethecus racks were a very good value. I never should have sold mine.

 

i had a custom rack built based on one that came with my old sansui 1980's system built with levels on the bottom

 

It's like the wedding premium... wanna rent a space, it's $1,500 for the night. Tell 'em it's for a wedding and it suddenly $15,000. Same with anything audiophile related.

 

Serious question... last you'll sell because it improved your sound that much or last you'll sell because you like the look of it?

 

Yeah, to me, that's a rack worth a few hundred to nearing a thousand if it's really all that. I'd buy a credenza of some sort instead. Then again, I'm not the high zoot audiophile some here are and won't spend the money many of them will on *any* audio product. I follow my own advice to listen more, analyze less. (and, of course, gab on audio forums. )

 

I have the Salamander Archetype in black. Solid!

 

I agree. A bit of an ordeal to put together (not complicated, just time-consuming), but fairly easy to level (you can independently level each shelf) with a clean, simple utilitarian look that should fit well within most decor stylings. And it will save you money that you can spend on tubes, cords, vinyl, etc!

 

I don’t feel like Salamander provides any real isolation, but using the spike feet and being able to level each shelf does wonders if you have uneven floors. Again, I wish they still made some of the double-wide and turntable-top shelves that seem to be no longer offered.

 

I have a Salamander, have had it for years. I like it's flexibility but as mentioned, it does little for isolation and with some turntables, might even hurt more than it helps. Unfortunately, I can't use a wall shelf for my table (long story, please don't ask) but that's absolutely the route I would go if I could.