Let's talk about The Beach Boys - Holland

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Amnesiac, Apr 6, 2016.

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  1. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Like all of the early 70s Beach Boys albums, it is uneven.

    You can get a truly amazing compilation out of the those first four Reprise albums.
     
  2. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    No?

    Doesn't Mike Love take credit for bullying Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar out of the band? They were essential to the artistic success of Holland. The group never came within spitting distance of its accomplishment again.

    And yes, I really enjoy The Beach Boys Love You... I think it's better than Side One of Bowie's similarly-minimalist Low.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  3. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    Indeed.

    I forced myself to omit Funky Pretty from Holland, but it is my favorite album of the four. This is a hypothetical double-LP playlist... four sides in an alternate universe gatefold compilation.

    01 Slip On Through 2:20 - 1970: Sunflower
    02 This Whole World 1:58 - 1970: Sunflower
    03 Add Some Music To Your Day 3:37 - 1970: Sunflower
    04 Long Promised Road 3:35 - 1971: Surf's Up
    05 Lookin' At Tomorrow (A Welfare Song) 1:58 - 1971: Surf's Up
    06 You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone 3:31 - 1972: Carl & The Passions - So Tough
    07 Only With You 3:03 The Beach Boys 1973: Holland

    08 Marcella 3:57 - 1972: Carl & The Passions - So Tough
    09 Leaving This Town 5:52 - 1973: Holland
    10 Our Sweet Love 2:41 - 1970: Sunflower
    11 Forever 2:42 - 1970: Sunflower
    12 'Til I Die 2:44 - 1971: Surf's Up
    13 Surf's Up 4:12 - 1971: Surf's Up

    14 Sail On, Sailor 3:22 - 973: Holland
    15 Feel Flows 4:50 - 1971: Surf's Up
    16 California Saga (Big Sur) 2:57 - 1973: Holland
    17 California Saga (The Beaks of Eagles) 3:49 - 1973: Holland
    18 California Saga (California) 3:24 - 1973: Holland
    19 Cool, Cool Water 5:05 - 1970: Sunflower

    20 The Trader 5:08 - 1973: Holland
    21 All I Wanna Do 2:37 - 1970: Sunflower
    22 Steamboat 4:39 - 1973: Holland
    23 All This Is That 4:04 - 1972: Carl & The Passions - So Tough
    24 Cuddle Up 5:30 - 1972: Carl & The Passions - So Tough

    Hmmm... I think I'll go listen to it now with a glass of smooth Merlot. Unfortunately, Mike Love decided to MAKE THE BEACH BOYS GREAT AGAIN! after this estimable purple patch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  4. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Canada
  5. boe

    boe Forum Resident

    Location:
    western New York
    There were a few years in the very early 70s when it became cool to like the Beach Boys again and they were a considered as a serious contemporary band who featured new (and good) material in concert. I saw them multiple times in 71-73 (also saw with Glen Campbell in 65) headlining in theaters and larger venues and the Surf's Up / Holland material was always well-received. Trader was one song in particular that went over big as well as Feel Flows, Student Demonstration Time, the Big Sur trilogy. Carl and The Passions was such a letdown right when they were one great album away from getting to another level and becoming a Stones-like band: currently relevant with a bunch of 60s hits in their back pocket. Then came Endless Summer and they became an oldies act. It's great that a few of the songs from this era are working their way back into live performance. Some of their best work. The playlist above by Guy E proves the point.
     
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  6. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I acquired a nice vinyl copy of Holland last year. Have not played it yet, but I am compelled after reading this thread. I love this place...
     
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  7. MaccaBeatles

    MaccaBeatles Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater London
    Holland is excellent.

    In hindsight, as the last truly 'great Beach Boys album (Love You being the only real exception) it makes 15 Big Ones as a follow up even more baffling.

    As stated in a previous post, Holland was pretty much the last time The Beach Boys could be seen as a contemporary rock act. 15 Big Ones completely killed their artistic progress. (Love You and Adult/Child, as wonderful as I think they are, are very much outsider music.)

    Why oh why they couldn't have taken the few salvageble originals from 15 Big Ones and worked on the outtakes from the 1970-1976 period to create a worthy follow up i don't know. They had a wealth of material to choose from in hindsight.

    Good Timin'
    Soulful Old Man Sunshine
    My Love Lives On
    It's OK
    Had To Phone Ya
    Where Is She?
    Carry Me Home
    River Song
    Back Home
    California Feeling
    We Got Love
    4th Of July
    Games Two Can Play
    I Just Got My Pay
    HELP Is On The Way
    Wouldn't It Be Nice (To Live Again)
    San Miguel
    Out In The Country
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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  8. Hall Cat

    Hall Cat Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I think it was Ricky
     
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  9. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Thanks for providing us with a Bruce-free safety zone!
     
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  10. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    Really? Where does he "take credit" for this?
     
  11. jonathan

    jonathan Senior Member

    Location:
    NY
    What's your set list?
     
  12. jonathan

    jonathan Senior Member

    Location:
    NY
    You all mean next-to-last:

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    I admire your enthusiasm. :)

    I liked TWGMTR when it came out and it is a fun nostalgia exercise, but I listened to it again recently and that Joe Thomas production sound just doesn't do it for me.
     
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  14. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    Maybe he doesn't openly "take credit" for it, but I've read on several occasions that he was responsible. This is from a post 12-years ago by "peerke" here on SH:

    I think most of your questions - and then some - will be answered here:
    http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/bbtimeline.html

    here's an example:
    december 1973 - Blondie Chaplin leaves the band, allegedly following a backstage fist fight with Steve Love after the gig at Madison Square Garden on the 19th . His replacement is James William Guercio of Chicago, who soon becomes the band's manager.


    The linked website is inactive now. I recall a more in-depth recollection from an interview with Blondie Chaplin. Mike had a couple of Love family members on the Beach Boys payroll... he
    used them as his henchmen. Blondie knew who was behind it. I mean, when a roadie beats the crap out of a band member, the roadie gets dumped, right? Under normal circumstances.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
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  15. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    I am aware that Blondie and Steve Love had a fight. But you will need to show me a quote that states that Mike in any way ordered that.

    And you suggested that Mike also bullied Ricky out of the band. What do you base that on?

    Anyhow, it clearly wasn't their departures that stopped the group from releasing anything in 1974 and 1975.
     
  16. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    We're not in a court of law here... if you think Mike Love was outraged that his brother Steve beat the crap out of Beach Boy Blondie Chaplin and pleaded with him to stay in the band, try proving that. I have no trouble drawing the obvious conclusion in this Internet discussion of band trivia. Mike Love had an agenda, but forum rules prohibit some aspects of the discussion.

    It's been a long time since I read that interview with Chaplin and I don't feel like investigating the Facebook Group that's dedicated to Love. Steve Love was a piece of work, by any measure:
    Articles about Stephen M Love - latimes

    I do think that it took the wind out of the band's sails. Those guys were given partial credit for Leaving This Town (how do four men collaborate on a song as simple and direct as that?) but had contributed two songs to Carl & The Passions. They were a team and with Chaplin bullied out, Fataar quit posthaste. From what I recollect, it was Carl who brought them in. They were a big part of the groove on those albums and momentum was lost as the band regrouped. Returning to a more formulaic Rock 'n Roll Hit Machine was a rocky path, but that was always Mike's path of choice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
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  17. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Repeated for emphasis.

    Bow-bow-dip-dip.
     
  18. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    While Stan Love was brought in as Brian’s companion and bodyguard, that was much later than the Blondie/Ricky timeline. Steve Love was brought in as their finance manager, and I think, touring manager after Jack Rieley was relieved of his duties. While an argument ensued, it was Steve who threw the punch on his own. As for Ricky, he left of his own accord. Dennis was ready take over on drums and due to that, along with the lack of recording and also being offered a spot in Joe Walsh’s band, he gave his notice to Carl. Ricky remained with the band for nearly a year after the Blondie/Steve Love incident.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
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  19. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    Sorry, but I never suggested anything remotely of the sort. But there is a world of difference between two people having a fight and one person having been given the order to "beat the crap" out of someone. And the idea that forum rules allow someone to make accusations, but don't allow someone to actually explain is rather disingenuous.

    And I value Blondie and Ricky's contribution to the band. But the fact is that they did only co-write one song on Holland and their departure is certainly not seen as one of the key factors in the failure to record a follow up. Brian's mental problems, the failure of the recordings in 1974, Carl's marital break-up and subsequent alcohol/drug problems, the need to tour Endless Summer/Spirit of America, Dennis never having really gained the respect of his bandmates etc. are all much more significant reasons.

    And while I'm sure Mike did (and does) enjoy performing the hits, it was actually Dennis who suggested that they needed to add more to the setlist. It was then Brian's idea to record all of the oldies on 15 Big Ones. Mike and Al agreed to release it because by that time in 1976, they desperately needed to release anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  20. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    Guy, let me just add that the oldies machine started when Jim Guercio was brought in as their manager. The group voted and sent Dennis to see Jim about taking the Beach Boys on. And while Mike may have been fully on board with Guercio’s plan, it was not Mike alone who chose that path. While Rieley’s mission was to dump the oldies until the end of the show, Guercio’s plan was for them to embrace their past and load the show with a boatload of hits. That was totally reinforced by the effects American Graffiti had on the nation, Capitol’s release of Endless Summer and the fans themselves who attended those shows during that era. You give the paying public what they want to hear. By the Summer of 74, that was the oldies, and it soon propelled them back into Super Stardom from 1975 through 1980.
     
  21. Guy E

    Guy E Senior Member

    Location:
    Antalya, Turkey
    [​IMG]
    You don’t need proof
    when you have instinct!
     
  22. MitchLT

    MitchLT Two for the show

    And such a great cover too (also uncharacteristic!)
     
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  23. drbeachboy

    drbeachboy Forum Resident

    And, never let the facts stand in the way of a good myth. ;)
     
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  24. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ventura
    Nice rare pic of Michael E Love without a hat.
     
  25. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ventura
    It’s too bad that their artistic aspirations seemed to skid after this album, whatever the reason. I’m a full on B.B. apologist and like MIU just as much as I like Holland, but it would’ve been nice to have an another one or two lps of this quality.
     
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