Lindsey Buckingham Sues Fleetwood Mac Over Dismissal from Band

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by IHeartRecordsAz, Oct 11, 2018.

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  1. On the contrary, while he only had four top ten hits (which doesn't either diminish or enhance his standing in the band), he has worked as both an arranger on Chris' material, Stevie's material as well as a co-producer on their albums. I would argue that ALL four of them are essential parts of the band. Without any one of them, it changes the sound and also the unique make up of the band. Let me give an example. Until "Skylarking", Colin Moulding had more hits and Virgin Records pushed for his material to be released as the singles. That didn't diminish the fact that Andy was a driving force in the band. Just because something is seen as more commercial and more single worthy, doesn't diminish the quality of the material someone has written for a band. The quality of the albums benefited from ALL of them. I would argue that Stevie and Chris' material was often more radio friendly and, because Lindsey was secure in that, he would be more likely to try more esoteric material/arrangements with his own material.

    I would hardly argue that "Tusk" is typical top 40 material and that's been the direction that Lindsey has largely gone with his later material. The exception would be the first two Mac albums where he worked in a more traditional musical vein in tune (pardon the pun) with Chris and Stevie.

    One could argue that John McVie and Mick Fleetwood aren't essential as they don't write any or sing any of the material (beyond some co-writes such as "The Chain" or "Searching/Fighting for Madge", etc.) but THEY ARE essential parts of the band. Every change the Mac has been through has reflected the singers and songwriters brought into the band and every change has changed the very nature of the band itself.

    I would also argue that Lindsey spent a huge amount of time on their albums as both arranger (Chris in one interview indicated that it was that unique quality that Lindsey brought to the band. There are other examples where one of the main songwriters hasn't had the most hits but that doesn't speak to the quality of the material nor how integral they are within the line up.

    As to the question on his skills as a producer, we don't know what, exactly, Lindsey does in his role but those that he has worked with such as Richard Dashut have also co-written material with him. Being collaborative as a producer doesn't preclude giving them credit. While he never solely took credit, it also might not completely reflect all of the work he did. Many times co-producers will focus on one strength or another for example, Dashut's strength as an engineer. Clearly Lindsey feels comfortable working with him as a collaborator. It's clear even from comments from Christine and Stevie that he was an essential part of the band. For touring, could you put a ringer in there (which Neil Finn and Mike Campbell are far more than)? Sure--you can do with that ANY band with someone who is accomplished enough but that does change the dynamics, the tension or the chemistry of the band. Will some people notice? Nope and yep. Does the way tickets are selling reflect on this for bands that know the band well? That's a very strong possibility.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  2. I would agree that she is certainly LESS proficient than Chris, or Lindsey for sure. I think she recognizes that though which is why she primarily acts as a front woman of sorts on stage (although that could also be argued as well) but, yes, you are certainly accurate and the role she plays as a musician on stage is considerably less than any other members. If Chris wasn't there they would have to have somebody play her parts because Stevie certainly wouldn't (or couldn't, I can't honestly say--she's a decent enough keyboard player from what I recall but she is decent at best).
     
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  3. PRW94

    PRW94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southeast
    I don't look good in chiffon.

    IMO Stevie Nicks hasn't made a completely decent album since Bella Donna.

    If you put a gun to my head and told me "Pick a FM member or die," I'd pick Christine.

    But I still don't think Lindsey is the whole group in any way.

    I've said he's not a Mount Rushmore face in the music world. I'll give you this ... except for two albums back in the 1970s, and I prefer the "white album" to Rumours, IMO the post-Peter Green Fleetwood Mac is not a Mount Rushmore band in the great pantheon of bands.

    I hated Tango, it's the only FM album I traded off at the used CD store.
     
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  4. PDK

    PDK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central Florida
    I never listened to the whole Tango album, but from there forward we have more written and filmed documentation (than prior) to support the commonly held belief that much of the band's musical weight was his piece/role in the band. That's why I mentioned it.
     
  5. cungar

    cungar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Piece of Work or Prisoner of War?

    Have to say, it's hard to maintain my pro Lindsey stance seeing stuff like this. He can't even show the interviewer some respect by looking at her. Kinda rude.
     
  6. I'm sure she has a love/hate relationship with LB. On the one hand, she probably loved playing with him live, they have so much shared history though that there has to be some mixed emotions (much like Lennon and McCartney) between them. He could be a stern taskmaster as an arranger and co-producer on their albums. There's a video out there floating around where he gives Nick's suggestions on the last full album they made together in FM and she isn't exactly enamored with his suggestions.
     
  7. I don't think it's rude. He's just kind of spaced out looking to me. I'm sure he doesn't want to be there doing publicity on the other hand, when the interviewer asks him a question directly, in his response he makes plenty of eye contact.
     
  8. gregorya

    gregorya I approve of this message

    I don't know... all three men look a little less than engaged until they're spoken to and then they are fine. Lindsey's spiel seemed to tow the corporate PR line to me... "better than ever", etc...

    They all look tired... :)
     
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  9. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    He was individually named as producer on Tusk/Mirage/Tango/Dance/SYW.
     
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  10. PRW94

    PRW94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southeast
    Look at his face in that photo, it's obvious Lindsey doesn't want to be in this band anymore, in his heart of hearts. He's as much as said he needs FM to publicize/subsidize his solo work, it has to be hell to be stuck in something you really don't want to be in, for that reason, especially with people who are on different planes than you are as far as making music. (Playing the hits and collecting the cash vs. making new music and keeping on creating.)

    I can understand him wanting to fight back when he believes he's been wronged both personally and financially. I've posed some devil's advocate stuff here, and I've probably sounded like I'm dissing the guy by saying I think he's a second-stringer compared to Lennon/McCartney, Brian Wilson, etc. ... although how many people actually DO belong in the same sentence with folks like that, and it's no diss to call somebody a second-stringer in that kind of company ... but I absolutely would be doing the same thing he's doing when faced with this set of variables. Absolutely. Without question.

    But again, I hope at the end of the day when he gets his check he goes to the house and does his thing and lets them do their thing whether it works or whether it heads straight into the gutter and implodes in a mass of chiffon.

    Once he gets over his mad and his hurt, he'll understand that the road forward is going to be much happier and more fulfilling.
     
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  11. MRamble

    MRamble Forum Resident

    Lindsey appears respectful and by no means undermines Stevie's speech any more than the other members are. Shame that video will essentially be the last time they are together.
     
  12. Socalguy

    Socalguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA
    He looks like a man who’s already heard enough of Nicks’ mindless rambling to last a lifetime
     
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  13. cungar

    cungar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Torrance, CA
    Is there any indication Lindsey was discontented with FM because a lot of their music was MOR and he wanted to play more quirky stuff like his solo albums (and Tusk)?
     
  14. 7MusicFan6

    7MusicFan6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maine
    Right, but on the other hand, they would not have had such huge success if only Buckingham had joined and there were no Nicks songs to produce.

    Fan bases can argue any which way, but this is a group that thrived between 1975-1987 due to the sum of its parts.

    Lindsey had a gift to make Christine and Stevie's songs sparkle and pop for the charts. But each of them is a great songwriter, and their three styles are so very different. This is why many people do not enjoy their solo albums. They like the balance of the three distinct styles over the course of an album.

    We live in a time when people feel forced to choose sides about everything, and where no one can deal with shades of gray. It's either this way or that way. Team Lindsey or Team Stevie.

    Stevie's stage presence, Lindsey's production, Christine's steadfast musicianship, Stevie's melodies, Lindsey's intricate arrangements, Christine's hooks. No matter how hard the LB fan boys and Stevie disciples try to say that "their fave" made the band, the fact is that it was the sum of their various strengths.
     
  15. twistandshout

    twistandshout Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Is it true that Buckingham would only form the group back in the '70's if his then girlfriend, Stevie Nicks was allowed to join....
    If that's the case, then Nicks can thank Buckingham for her career....what a way to thank him - by kicking him off the group.
     
  16. PRW94

    PRW94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southeast
    I repeat, I was told by one of the top advocates for Team Lindsey online ... I accidentally joined a Facebook group of pro-Lindsey folks; it's one of the most distasteful places I've visited in a while and I got out of there ASAP ... that to follow this band, I literally had to be a Lindsey person or a Stevie person.

    Again, I think that is balderdash. That snares this band completely in the web of a silly soap opera between two people who once were in lust with each other and can't get over it and move on and quit sniping at each other.
     
  17. 7MusicFan6

    7MusicFan6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maine
    That is absurd! Some people can ruin everything, including the experience of music, with nonsense like this.
     
  18. PRW94

    PRW94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southeast
    IMO, some people ... NOT ALL PEOPLE ... are more fans of the soap opera than they are of this band and its music. I think they follow this band for the same reason people watch/follow soap operas, they project themselves into a fantasy world.

    IMO that's why there's so much heat surrounding this band. (I use "heat" in its pro rasslin' definition, which is crowd reaction to the storyline.)
     
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  19. 7MusicFan6

    7MusicFan6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maine
    I think you may be right. Because how would these people who ridiculously claim you need to be a fan of Lindsey OR Stevie but not both .... how would they even enjoy the music? There are so many songs on which they both feature prominently.
     
  20. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    The Van Halens or Yes or The Beatles or Floyd???????
    Mac has the romance and sex not really found in most long running rock soap operas and legal procedures.
     
  21. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    It's all been pre-planned, for massive publicity. They want to up that $200k/show amount up to $300k. Besides, none of them are actually alive, they are all holograms by now. You heard it here first!
     
  22. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Yes. It's distasteful.
     
  23. We've had evidence of what happened when Lindsey left. "Behind The Mask" without Lindsey was a disaster in terms of critical reception and sales weren't all that great. On the other hand, Lindsey can't sell the venues the way that the whole band could. The fact is that they need each other.
     
  24. Irish-Matti

    Irish-Matti Music Lover Since Birth

    Location:
    Old Saybrook, CT
    Christine probably would have quite okey with Dashut and others, 4 of her 5 songs on "Time" are great. Really.
    Stevie without Lindsey, like a deer in the headlights. What aspect of anything, has she NOT whined about??? Always needed Linds' approval; and still complained!
    No love loss here after 43 years.
     
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  25. Irish-Matti

    Irish-Matti Music Lover Since Birth

    Location:
    Old Saybrook, CT
    "wayneklein", I do apologize for the comment, but reread your first line. I did the same thing feeding into 'musicaner's' post.
    Sometimes, these set-up lines seem just too inviting. By the bye, body shaming is not confined to the female sex, there are also overweight male musicians.
    It's outright embarrassing to see Stevie trying to twirl around in her high-heeled sneakers.
    Good grief.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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