S&G Well my review of the E/Lexus Hemp is coming soon and I have avoided using specific albums. Basically we're human and you see other reviewers do it so you assume maybe that's what people want. But like you I thought - what if nobody reading the review has heard the album or likes the genre. Eyes gloss over. I mention some of what I mentioned above noting what it's not ( a massive horn or a single driver) and I do compare it to the Harbeth M40, DeVore O/96 and others. The problem with having a reference like the AN E is that while it is becoming a fairly well known speaker it is not "mainstream" and the issue with references is that it is arguably better for reviewers to have references that are very widely auditioned by readers. That is actually the main reason I bought the KEF LS-50. It's a big mainstream speaker and it doesn't necessarily matter if one loves it or not so long as they have heard it so when I say the midrange is more nuanced that XYZ you the reader can check that out for yourself or if it's someone who already hears it like me they can say okay I will stick with the KEF for now. The reviewer has to write for the experienced and for the newbie just entering the hobby. And most dealers simply do not offer a wide spectrum of speaker designs or amplifier designs. The trick is to somewhat not talk over the newbie while also not bore the experienced audiophile to death stating what for them is the bleeding obvious. Art Dudley does it very well - most of the rest of us don't. I've read a lot of DAC reviews that seem like I'm on a computer board waiting for someone to write the English language that I can follow. Indeed, another reviewer noted that CD is still popular because the DAC he reviewed came with a 12 page instruction manual to get sound to come out of the thing. CD? 1) Open door and put CD on tray 2) push close 3) push play. Well well look at that sound is coming out. Manual? If they forgot to put the manual in you will get it working within three minutes. Good luck with the modern DAC. And heaven help you if it needs an "update." I think the main problem for what you want in a review is next to impossible to achieve. Reviewers simply don't have the money or the space to be able to make the comparisons you truly want. While it is correct that within the AN E, DeVore 0/96, Harbeth M40, Trenner and Freidl RA, ATC 100, and a few others in this somewhat in the ballpark design type - reviewers will often jump to the single driver or the panel (or IME I see more jump from those to one of my list). And then it's back to comparing the Elite of the cohesiveness of the single driver to the failing of all the speakers I listed. Further it is difficult to discuss the weaknesses of a speaker that the reviewer buys. Persuasive writing is practically drilled into you at university - hyperbole is a solid tool when used well. And indeed, you can write 20 great things about a speaker and then see someone always quote the one negative comment as if that negative comment completely overrides the 20 good points. I mean just with Art's review of the AN E/Spe which he bought - people picked out the couple of lines about the measured performance as an "attack" - umm but the guy bought em. Wes Philips said it was the best sound he ever heard, two other reviewers bought them or a higher version. But it's the one negative comment in the entire thing they take away. This is why I wrote the big speaker thing above. You have to weigh all the factors - for you if it does not come with a grill cloth then it's off the list. And the AN E does not come with grill cloths - they used to but no more. Of course back in the day the speaker came in chipboard cabinets - so you kind of wanted to cover them up. Their feeling is that now the speakers are 15 ply no void Russian Birch in over 40 finishes that you will be able to find one the wife likes and that will fit your home decore. And you can get the woofer in black or blue. I suppose if you are ultra serious you can always go the extra mile and put your own magnetic grill cloths on. The Trenner has a grill cloth and Harbeth - Not sure on DeVore - every time I have heard them they had no cloth on. But with AN - in most cases you are buying first and they will build it for you. If you want one with a grill cloth I am pretty sure it can be done because they used to do it. It just might cost more than you will care to pay. But I have seen AN E in British Racing Green like those old sports cars with gold trim rings around the tweeters. It actually looked awesome and I try to hunt that picture down from time to time. I'm sure if you pay enough you can get them painted with Hello Kitty. Here is an example of the AN AZ Three
I would put forward that writing a simple compare and contrast essay is either beyond most people these days or, more likely, not allowed by the publications most reviewers right for. Word economy would be one more thing they lack an understanding of.
Not sure about the AN speakers, but the 96's do come with standard grills (the use magnets for placement).
Interesting that you mention the Kef LS-50's. I do not own a pair but they are on mt bucket list for a used pair. I don't have any particular need or use for them. They sell them at out large local area audio store chain. But listening to them in that environment, would offer little to me. I want them because they are well reviewed and it will help me understand other comparisons. Part of my hobby is just listening to the different amps and speakers. I am having so much fun doing it and trying new and different combinations. The WAF I spoke about being a necessary part of a review was not aimed at myself but rather a typical married couple, where the guy is into audio, and his wife, not so much. Years ago, it was common to have a stereo in every living and family room. The only WAF was that it had to look like "furniture". Hence, the console stereo's of the 60's. Back in the Woodstock era, separates were common and both the boys and the girls, were into music, so, again music was common in the homes of young married couples. This time, consoles were out and component stereo systems were in. Then, in the 80's came and VCR's were the next big thing. from the late 80's through the turn of the century, people were buying large screen TV's. Back then, those huge, heavy, rear projection TV's were in. along with Dolby Pro Logic surround sound. Sony 60" Rear Projection TV. If the average family wanted a large screen TV, it usually looked like this. Because of their size, You could have huge Klipsch speakers like the KG5.5's, that I had and, because the TV's were so large, nobody hardly noticed them. That started to change as people moved away from two channel stereo (at least here in the states) and toward HT applications. Then as newer technology like the Texas Instruments DLP rear screen TV's, started to come along, TV's started getting thinner and sat on stands or the wall, instead of the floor. I still have a ten year old JVC DLP TV, and I'm still fine with it. Fast forward to present day. They have 70" TV's that are as thin or thinner than cell phones and it is getting harder than ever to keep up the WAF and still be a avid audiophile. Unless that audiophile has a dedicated room to himself. Speaker manufacturer's are going to have more of an uphill battle, more today than ever before. Magnetic grill options are something that every manufacturer needs to revisit. A real life example of this in America was the inclusion of simple cup holder's for beverages in the car. In America, they went from zero to many in a very short time. German manufacturer's, with their typical arrogance , proudly made their statements that their cars were sold due to their superior German engineering and they considered a lowly cup holder, to be totally unnecessary. Well... When their sales fell through the floor in the states, they had a change of tune. You will note the number of cup holders in all makes of German cars after the beginning of the 21st century. (funny thing isn't it?) Manufacturer's like the ones you mention may take what ever views they wish, it is a free country. If the choose not to offer optional magnetic removable grills, it's entirely their business. It is not likely to influence my purchasing decision either way. However if WAF is a consideration, it may well influence the purchasing decision. WAF = Grill Covers. They will figure that out one day, or maybe they won't. Art Dudley is one of the better reviewers. The real issue is, there can never be even the assumption of objectivity in a review when the magazines only review products of their advertiser's. As long as that is their policy, I accept their reviews with a grain of salt. Consumer Reports does not accept advertising, so when they do review something, I don't automatically assume a product bias. I don't have any issue with plywood, I do have an issue with companies selling expensive speakers, say above $6K-$8K, made out of MDF. I'm a wood veneer (or other material) over real wood kind of guy. As to plywood, I'm sitting about ten feet in front of two Altec A7 speakers in gray plywood cabinets. To my right are two commercial La Scala's in black plywood cabinets finished with birch plywood. I would never purchase on of the A7's made with pressed wood, nor would I purchase one of the new versions of the Legacy Klipsch speakers in pressed wood either. Zu and Tekton offer automotive paints. The British Racing Green with the Gold accents would make an attractive combination. Like those AN AZ Three cabinets, they look like video games.
There is an intelligent thought. I have a pair of Omen Definitions. I bought my pair used off of eBay. They do not have grills, but they offer them when you order them. I have them sitting next to my other front speakers, have A/B Switch. The other pair are Polk's LSiM707's. They have magnetic metal grills, with cloth coverings. They look nice either way. With the grills off, the front is a piano black finish. I have a pair of Klipsch WF-35's that I use for rear speakers, and they have magnetic grill covers. I don't see any downside to offering magnetic grill covers. I can see, if you like the look of bare speakers, I can see that you would not want holes that those plastic pegs fit into. In general, I do think that home speakers look better in the living room with grill cloths on. Polk LSiM707's - They look nice with grills on or off. Speakers like the RTiA9's look like pawnshop bling without their grills on. Tried w/grills off, doesn't work for me. Photo does not do justice to silver painter speaker rims. Big towers, lots of ugly holes, not so attractive to look at. I just don't see any downside to be able to order with magnetic grills. Monitor Audio without and with magnetic grill's on.
As I remember it Peter Qvortrup the AN head man was frustrated that dealers would leave the grill cloths on when they auditioned the speakers for people. They are meant to be taken off when listening because the grills interfere with the sound. So, eventually he made the decision to dump the grill cloths. Also with the large number of finishing options - the grill cloths covers it up. I suppose Audio Note could sell more speakers if they had the option - but that's the least of their problems. The bigger problem is when husband and wife go in and audition and love what they hear and are ready to open their wallet and are told - yes that will be $8,000 and you need to pay us up front and then in 5 months you can come pick up the speakers. So that grill cloths kind of become a distant issue as few are willing to wait - hey honey there is a KEF LS-50 over here - we have 18 pairs in stock. Then again it doesn't come with a grill cloth either. There's lots of things I wish AN and other companies would do. I wish they would put a bloody headphone output jack on all their preamps (or at least have it as an optional extra). I really don't want to unplug my source from the preamp to then hook up a headphone amp and then unhook it all to put it back. Personally I think they should have the grill cloth option as well. But no one is without blind spots. They are engineering sorts who make a decision based on sound - but perhaps they don't think it to the practical husband and wife concern. After all, his wife perhaps doesn't mind them not having a grill cloth. Unless companies are told - they may be in the blind spot. I had the AN-J speakers with the cloths and my new AN E/Lexus without - I prefer the latter in looks and sound. I still go back to having a speaker hard in corners without cloths versus almost every other free standing design with cloths. The latter will be far more obtrusive to the room than the corner speaker where you can see the drivers. Some wives will disagree with me but many others will choose the floor space since you can always put a pillow cover over the speakers and a knickknack to hold the cloth. People love them their knickknacks
Okay, to get this thread back on track (not that lots of people aren't clamoring for entire book chapters about speaker grills! Zzzzzzzzz- please start your own thread if you want to discuss things so far off-topic) I thought I would post an update of sorts. My system has been sounding great. I have mostly been listening to vinyl (that new 45rpm Mofi reissue of Love Forever Changes is amazing!). In preparation for my Gerrard 401 project being implemented, I happened to purchase a Feickert protractor and an Ortofon digital stylus force gauge. Since I am still waiting for delivery of my tonearm and plinth, I decided to check my alignment/overhang and tracking force on my Rega P3/Dynavector setup. I had previously used an Avid mirrored protractor, specifically for a Rega, and I realize that may have used a different geometry than Baerwald. Not sure which. But since the Feickert protractor has 3 different geometries included, I was able to see I wasn't particularly close to any of them! LOL. Actually, the alignment looked very similar, but the overhang was off by quite a bit. Strange. I just started from scratch and used Baerwald this time and I thought I had done something wrong because I basically had it perfect in one try! That never happens. My tracking force was also off by about .3 grams (previously used a Shure balance beam). When I ran everything through the HiFi News test record, it passed with flying colors. Absolutely perfect tracking on the innermost "torture track," and that is the first time my system has ever played that track with no distortion. In the process of alignment, I also discovered the source of some background noise I had previously attributed to the bearing of the turntable. There was a very tiny piece of debris attached to the stylus that was dragging. The ZeroDust, which I use every few records, was obviously unable to get it off. I used a pair of tweezers and a magnifier to get it off. Overall, there was not a night-and-day difference in the sound after these changes. Rather very subtle changes, like better tracking near the end of records, a more graduated and smoother soundstage, a more precise center image, and an overall more relaxed delivery of everything. And also a slightly lower noise floor with the stylus cleaned off. I think the Feickert's ability to precisely locate your tonearm's pivot point is the secret to that device's superior results. It is pretty expensive for what it does, but even so, if you listen to a lot of vinyl, I think it is worth it.
Unfortunately, I haven't touched my Line Magnetic in like three weeks. I'm knee deep in adding all my cd's to my computer so I've been listening to my HT setup instead, that's where the computer is at. Probably another 2-3 weeks at the pace I'm going but it's worth it for the Pono that I use in my car. Man, I miss it.
I did that a couple of winters ago. Took a couple months of doing a bunch every night. But I did them all the right way, and am so happy I did. Now I rip any new CDs as I get them so it isn't a chore. You'll be happy when you're done!
got to the end of your post (which i enjoyed) and realized that you complained about how far off topic this got (speaker grills) and then posted about turntable setup. haha
Lol, I noticed that too, however, it is still about the sound of MY system, which includes Line Magnetic gear.
Sorry... But now that the thread is back on track... When you decided on your 401 project, was there any reason that you selected it over the 301? I like these older Garrard's, but I am curious what motivates a decision of one over the other? My preference tends toward the 301, no particular reason, other than it looks more vintage, in a basic mechanical way. While the 401 has a more modern look to it. Are there any special audio issues that prompted your preference?
Basically looks and price. I wanted to go with a fully restored unit, and the prices were slightly lower for the 401. And, I prefer the looks of the 401. The clean lines. Especially with the "sable" treatment from Audio Grail. I do like the looks of the 301 too, but because I see them in far more systems, I also feel like the 401 is a bit more unique. It also matches the Thomas Schick tonearm better, visually, IMO.
My take on the 301, is more late 50' early 60's. If I would imagine the original Mercury astronaut's, doing a tour of their homes. I would imagine 1960's early modern furniture (I like this look a lot), with simple lines, a long low stereo console, with a 401 TT. It's that "new" look of technology. It's like going from the car styling in the early 50's to the sleek look of the mid 60's cars. If I would imagine the middle 60's with someone like Hugh Hefner and Frank Sinatra in their homes. I would imagine a custom built audio console's with the 401's prominently featured. I'm trying to wean myself away from my likes for industrial looking gear, but that is what first attracted me to the Line Magnetic line in general. Here was a company that wasn't trying for the pretty living room look. Just the basic, here's what we are, here's what we do. Eventually I would like to get away from my current look, of a mad scientist's workshop and move into a early 60's modern look. Without actually listening to your system, I get the impression, that it is kind of a bridge that joins legacy sound and equipment, with modern day sound, that retains the life of the mid's and adds more dynamics and detail in the top and tightness in the low registers. I like what you are doing, I find your journey interesting. Thank's for sharing!
Thanks for your kind words! I hadn't thought of my system that way, exactly. I guess because I am smack in the middle of building it one piece at a time. But it makes sense. I did have those vintage McIntosh tube pieces (MC240 and MX110z) for over 10 years (and my Fisher 500B, which I gave to my brother) and they definitely have influenced my path going forward. I'm not sure I will ever again be able to venture away from that tube midrange. But it is an easy call to say my current Line Magnetic amp sounds a lot better than any of that old gear. Even the midrange is better. The bass isn't even comparable. I got a shipping notice from Vinylista this morning, so my plinth and Schick tonearm (Vinylista is now a dealer for Thomas Schick too) are on their way . I think I will start a new thread on that setup once I have everything. I'll post a link here.
Excellent! Just purchased a Vintage early 60's Scott 222C Integrated Amplifier. In terms of vintage tube sound, it should be between the Fisher X-100's and the Mac MC-30's. The 222C has tube rectification. I just got in a pair of Warferdale W70's from the middle 60's to pair it with. Curious to see how it sounds with the A7's also. I'm on the lookout for a pair of Warferdale W90's per Gang-Twanger's recommendation for pairing. My TT is a Dual 1219 w/Sure V15 Type 4 cart. Interestingly, The 222C uses the 7189 tube, while in the EL84 family, can handle a higher plate current, providing 22-watts of output, same as the 845's in the Line Magnetic. See what I mean. What I am doing is a vintage, vintage. What you are doing is modern vintage. Taking the best of the vintage sound and retaining the tube midrange, while taking it to another level entirely. The Warferdale's represent old British vintage sound and the Harbeth's, a modern day British vintage sound. I'm figuring my vintage vintage system, will be optimum for reproducing sounds from LP recordings from the middle 60's and earlier. Ant, I believe it should work well with jazz and vocals. With some exceptions, I don't expect it to work well with more modern compressed recordings. Not that I expect any system outside today's disco sound should. I see your system working equally well with vintage or modern recordings, CD based or vinyl. Slick move with the tube DAC! With your 401 and Shick, you will have a versatile TT that can go from vintage to ultra modern sound. It all depends how you set it up. I think you have a synergy going where every component is matched well to your room size. With that, you have achieved true audiophile level of performance for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of other comparable systems. And still, you may have outdone them with the tube smoothness and the resolving level of detail. Perhaps, by running the Scott, through the A7's, it might offer a similar vintage/modern bridge, just with a different approach. Though, it may have more resolution, with the A7's, as compared to the Warferdale's. I doubt that it would come close to achieving what your LM will produce with those 845's. I think the Harbeth C7es3 (even though I have not personally auditioned them), would be an optimum match for The Line Magnetic LM-518IA and perfectly matched for the size of your listening room. I think you need ultra efficient speakers, like Avant Garde's to get the most out of the 300B SET's and other similar but less powerful tubes. You don't necessarily have to have a huge room but you need to right room for the Avant Garde's. Same goes for the Klipschcorn's or Tannoy Westminster SE's (my dream speaker). Even if cost were not an issue, I do not have the right room for any of these speakers. I doubt you room would be an ideal match for these either. Great that your brother will now be enjoying your Fisher 500B, keeping the tunes in the family. Out of curiosity, what will he be using it with as far as a source and speakers? Curious, It doesn't appear that the 518IA has a headphone out from the preamp, unless I am mistaken? I was wondering how the SQ was with the HD-600's as compared to the C7es3's, through the 518IA?
S&G, I don't have a headphone amp any longer. Haven't missed it either, so far. I've never been a big headphone listener, but it is nice to have the option. The Harbeths are excellent speakers, and you are right that they match my room size well. But they are not an optimal match to the 22 wpc SET amp. They are too inefficient to be perfect. However, the pairing still sounds great together, within their volume "happy zone." My brother has had the Fisher for years now. It is definitely the best part of his system. He has a young family and has other priorities than investing a lot in a stereo. He uses it with some Yamaha stand mount speakers he already had, along with a Music Hall turntable/Shure cartridge, and an older Pioneer universal player that I also gave him. It all sounds good enough that I always enjoy listening to vinyl when I visit him.
I have a nice pair of HiFiMan HE-400 planer headphones. I had considered purchasing the Sen 600's or 650's. Thought they might be nice to complement the He-400's. But to tell you the truth, I had to ask myself, what really will I ever do with them??? I simply don't care for headphones. It is not that I can't deal with the sound coming from inside my head, but 1) I don't care for wearing them on my head, 2) Why listen to headphones, when you can listen to speakers. If headphone user's could hear the sound that our system's make on the outside of our heads, I doubt if they would ever put a headphone on again. (Understanding, that sometimes it is necessary not to disturb other's close by.) "Happy zone" Good choice of words. No, you are not likely to rock the world with 86dB efficient speakers, coupled with a 22-watt amp. I use a Peachtree/Era D5 speaker in my bedroom, powered by a Peachtree 25-WPC Music Box. It's volume is decent, better than some might think, but a rock concert or symphony no. I have big Rogue tube monoblocks and other high powered amps coupled with efficient speakers, but my path is leading down the less is more lane. Not less SQ, just less dB's and better SQ. I have a nice little Decware 3.9-watt 6L6, single ended pentode and it has such a nice sound through the A7's. While it won't create a rock concert, they are efficient enough to be loud as they really need to be playing. I like that. Good that your brother is putting his family before his audio. With the Fisher at the center of things, I bet that his modest system sounds nice and is servings his needs well. Sounds like a nice set up for listening to vinyl. I just finished putting the tubes in my Scott and the face plate on. I'm itching to hook it up tonight and see how it sounds. S&G
A tube-rolling update: I had my eyes peeled for 9 months looking for some NOS CBS 7318's to substitute for the Mullard 12AU7's in my DAC. They seem to be rare as hen's teeth, and when they do show up, they are all over the map in terms of age and condition, etc. But I finally found a NOS pair with very good testing numbers from a reputable seller and they arrived today. I installed them in the DAC over my lunch break, and then fired up the system just to test them out quickly to make sure they were fine. They are. They have zero hours on them, so I'll need to break them in a bit first, but I'll post my impressions once I have had a chance to listen. When I originally bought my Line Magnetic gear, I made a "Wish List" for all tubes in my system. Sort of an aspirational list, but also a blueprint for tube rolling I was hoping to accomplish. With the addition of the CBS 7318's, I have now accomplished that entire Wish List (with the exception of NOS RCA 845's, which I think I will abandon, based on prices I have been following, and my satisfaction with the Psvane/Western Electric 845's). My system is sounding phenomenal right now.
Sure, same sound either way. I stream most of my digital directly from an iMac/hard drives using the coaxial input. However, I also have my Rega Saturn hooked up to it using the optical input, for the occasional CD that I don't have ripped yet. Same wonderful tube sound, which I prefer to the sound of the Saturn itself.
BTW, those CBS tubes are pretty special. The first song or two I played sounded pretty closed in without a lot of transparency. By the third song, it started opening up, and already (with probably 10-15 hours) the midrange is amazing. Best vocals I have ever heard with digital. Such purity. The bass still has a ways to go before it approaches the Mullards though.
I think the biggest difference is in the midrange. The tubes just open up that midrange and it reveals more texture, more liquid sound, more emotion. Vocals benefit tremendously. Just the other night I played a CD (which is extremely well-engineered by Stereophile's John Atkinson) through my Rega Saturn (which I thought sounded identical to the Rega DAC, when I had both in my system), and I thought it sounded a little edgy compared to what I have become accustomed to hearing through my LM DAC. But I had never heard this specific music through the LM before. So I hooked up the Saturn to the LM DAC using the optical input, and listened to the whole disc again. Sure enough, it was far more relaxing to listen to. The harp and violins were much sweeter, the bassoon bloomed beautifully. It was just a much nicer listen. This is with the NOS tubes I have in there (Siemens 6x4 rectifier and CBS 7318's for output tubes). I thought it sounded great with the stock Chinese tubes too. But different. You can roll tubes through this and find the sound that is right for you. That is one of the best things about it. Gives you a lot more options to customize the sound than those silly filters on the Rega, which I felt were so subtle that they barely mattered. I was a fan of the Rega. I still am. I think it is a nice sounding DAC, and I like Rega's approach to digital in general. But I do think the LM is a more refined sound, and to me at least, a firm step up the ladder. It isn't going to be everybody's preference though. Some people like big powerful solid state amps, for instance, while others like low power SET amps. I appreciate good designs in either of those camps, but my preference is definitely in the tube camp.
