Listenin' to Jazz and Conversation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I wouldn't call it experimental. I don't think they're out there experimenting in front of an audience and subjecting the audience to their testing out of ideas -- vs., say, the Miles Plugged Nickel recordings, were the band was actually experimenting or testing out some kind of idea to play not-jazz or something (without Miles knowing about it). I think they're playing a set, and they're flowing through the pieces in this profound dialog between one another in a spirit of group improvisation and in a lot of ways it builds on what Shorter and the Miles band did at the Plugged Nickel half a decade or so before and even what the Miles band was doing in '69 just before Shorter left. But I dunno, maybe they thought they were experimenting and finding their way. I think it sounds more self-assured than that. I find it very exciting, that intense dialog between the musicians.
     
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  2. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident


    It was a super popular album, but I dunno about "game changer." It was 1959, and it's not like in 1960, '61, '62 jazz was suddenly full of albums that deliberately called attention to uncommon and uneven time signatures. In '60, '61, '62, the impact of Coleman and Cecil Taylor and the "New Thing" seemed to change the game -- people felt like they had to take sides for or against, there were albums imitating the styles, more established cats like Coltrane and Sonny Rollins make albums with Coleman's players, etc. There wasn't anything like that with time signatures in the years after Time Out and Brubeck didn't just become the player who played in 5/4 or something.

    Of course, these days, everybody in jazz plays in all kinds of uncommon and uneven time signatures (uncommon in jazz when it was in large measure dance music), and often swings hard doing it without deliberately calling attention to the time signatures. Put on one of the Dave Holland Quintet or Big Band albums of the last 20, 25 years and you're likely to hear all kinds of uncommon or uneven or compound meters and you might not even notice it. But that was 40 year later, and many decades after jazz stopped being dance or pop music, and after it was full of lots of conservatory trained musicians for whom playing in these time signatures or reading scores that consisted of pictures, or other sorts non-folk kind of stuff was not so out-of-left-field.

    The Brubeck record is beautiful, the songs are great, the sound is great, Paul Desmond is great, and the use of these elements, not just the time signature thing from outside of jazz, is great, I wouldn't quite call it a shtick, but kind of a novelty concept element more that a "game changer" that came along and everyone in jazz had to kind of confront it and deal with it and respond to it in some way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 12:26 PM
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  3. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    If nothing else, Brubeck's "Time Out" brought widespread attention to the art of Paul Desmond. Now Paul Desmond was himself (with his alto) a movement, a school, and a man who changed public perceptions of jazz.

    Ever since Brubeck started, a portion of the jazz audience (and critics) refused to give him the recognition he deserved. As to why, that could be an entire discussion. But Brubeck successfully expanded the audience for jazz itself, for many other artists through many years, especially with his Long Playing 12 inch albums that established the heart of recorded jazz for many decades.
     
  4. WorldB3

    WorldB3 Forum Resident

    Big fan of the the Wurli on I Never Loved a Man the Way I Loved You and What'd I Say also. I can listen to early Atlantic records Aretha and Ray all day.
     
  5. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I love the sound of a Wurli 200a -- probably What'd I Say was an earlier Wurli, I assume -- but in terms of playing touch and feel and dynamic range and physical sturdiness, the Rhodes -- and I had I think a Fender era Rhodes IIRC -- was worlds better. But it didn't have that reedy, funky Wurli sound.
     
  6. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    I had one of those old Wurlis til it was stolen from my home in the late 'eighties. My favorite part of it was the "growl" you could get out of the lower octaves if yoyo struck the notes just right. Neat instruments. . . but as you note not that sturdy.
     
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  7. alankin1

    alankin1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philly
    Louis Sclavis & the Bernard Struber Jazztet – Le Phare (Enja Records)
    — Soprano Saxophone, Clarinet, Bass Clarinet – Louis Sclavis; Guitar – Bernard Struber; Bass – Jérémy Lirola; Clarinet, Alto Saxophone – Denis Tempo; Drums – Eric Echampard; Flute, Clarinet, Alto Saxophone – Raymond Halbeisen; Percussion – Latif Chaarani; Piano – Benjamin Moussay; Soprano Saxophone, Alto Saxophone – Roby Glod; Tenor Saxophone – Philippe Aubry; Trombone – Jean-Claude Eglin; Trumpet, Flugelhorn – Jean-Luc Cappozzo, Serge Haessler; Tuba – François Thuillier.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Six String

    Six String Forum Resident

    Lee Morgan - The Procrastinator (Blue Note) Music Matters 45 RPM Pressing
    Another solid album from Morgan that was held in the vaults for too long. Fifty years ago the Beatles gave us Sgt. Peppers. Lee Morgan gave us The Procrastinator. I know which one I'm more likely to play these days.
     
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  9. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Amen on that one.
     
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  10. dzhason

    dzhason Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Seems like you’re getting closer to being semantically satisfied with the words used to express the original sentiment, taking your edits into consideration, how about: “it’s interesting how the terms one uses to describe music to which they feel a less than positive, yet still respectful, reaction may be the same terms used by another as terms of endearment”? Of course, while I personally find that interesting, I realize that some may just find it a matter of fact.
     
  11. Six String

    Six String Forum Resident

    Freddie Hubbard - Hub-Tones (Blue Note) AP 45 RPM Pressing
     
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  12. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Today I broke out two of my favorite jazz guitar cds, both by Marcos Amorim:

    "Marcos Amorim Trio"

    [​IMG]

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    "Sea of Tranquility"

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    Marcos is a very interesting player, certainly not a carbon-copy jazz guitarist.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 3:48 PM
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  13. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I think we're getting bogged down in language. Maybe I'm just not expressing myself well. All I'm trying to explain is that to my mind that those musical characteristics I'm describing are neither negative nor positive, they're not terms of endearment, nor terms of disparagement. They're just descriptions, like calling music fast or slow in tempo, or tonal or atonal or something.

    You characterized me as using the terms about atmospheric music or a certain kind of groove music to "negatively describe music." But I wasn't suggesting that there was something negative about the music. I don't really think or feel that way about music. I believe whatever the musicians did is good. If they achieved want they wanted to achieve and if it touched people, it's good music made by good musicians.

    Those particular characteristics aren't often interesting or moving to me -- note: often, not never, I have no "nevers" or absolutes when it comes to music -- it's not the typical thing I find myself gravitating to or getting excited about, and so it is with me and Weather Report, I don't find myself wanting to listening to most of the group's output with any regularity for pleasure. Or, to quote Austin Powers, "That sort of thing ain't my bag, baby." But saying that is a description of me and my tastes and preferences, not of the music.
     
  14. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    An Xmas present from my wife . . . not a lot of variety but some great moments

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Yesternow

    Yesternow Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    That cover really caught my eye. An album cover with buildings... nothing new. But there's something special on those colours. What can I say, it's an important part of the magic of an album for me.

    So based on that I searched and found out that's a promo CD with just 2 tracks from the album. Lonson, is that correct?
    I was having a try - must say it's a very pleasant sound - and don't know why but this one came to mind, so automatically changed to:
    Chick Corea - Tones For Joan's Bones
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    That's a great, and a bit forgotten, record by Chick.
    Taking into account that its from 1966 I must say that I'm not pleased with the sound of the piano. Guess Chick was just a young cat by then, so recording expenses were kept to a minimum.
    Nevertheless his playing is great, the compositions exciting and Joe Chambers drumming always challenging.

    I'll try to understand tomorrow how did I start with a Swedish band and changed to Joan's Bones
     
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  16. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    No, the cd I have, with this cover, is a full length cd. More than anything else this reminds me of the bands that Keith Jarrett had when he was recording for Atlantic and his early work on Impulse, especially like the Burton-Jarrett album (same instrumentation but without vibes) and "Treasure Island" on Impulse--this Swedish quartet sounds a lot like theJarrett-Sam Brown quartet of that time.

    As for the Corea album. . . it has always seemed a budget release and came out I think first on Vortex, and Atlantic sub-label. . . I don't know the history but it's never sounded great, but it does have excellent music.
     
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  17. scompton

    scompton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    I think the back story makes it more interesting.

    She's a daughter of Ethiopian aristocracy and gave it up to be an Orthodox nun. She was educated in Europe and trained in classical violin. She took up piano in the convent and didn't release her first album until she was 40.
     
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  18. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Yeah, I read that, I know the back story. The music though is rather monotonous. And to be honest. . . I taught myself some piano when I was in college and . . . this sounds a lot like what I played then and can play now. . . which is perhaps why I'm a bit down on it. It's not sophisticated two-handed piano playing. It's a lot of right hand noodling against a pedal point left hand or a simple modal progression.

    It's interesting. . . for about twenty minutes. . . and then not so much. I bet her violin playing was more attention grabbing.

    I lived in Ethiopia from '66 to '68, my ages 11 to 13 and I wish I could hear some traditional Ethiopian music in this playing. . . but I don't really recognize any.
     
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  19. dzhason

    dzhason Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    This next album was on its way to becoming my white whale of the record bins, but rather than letting it lead me somehow to my personal demise... I decided I’d just order it off discogs!!! Just finished the first side, glad I did take the chance and order it, it’s a very clean sounding copy thus far. I really like the first track, by Woody Shaw, but where my bread really starts to get buttery is on the Hutcherson tunes.

    Bobby Hutcherson - Cirrus (there are only 2 US listings on discogs for this album, I don’t see any difference between them, so I’m guessing this is the original and only pressing of this?)

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    EDIT:

    Oh, and earlier, I broke into a new SHM-CD, something outside of my wheelhouse so to speak. I liked it, but I’m still trying to figure out how exactly I feel about it, I suppose, as they say.. it’s complicated.

    Julie London - Swing Me an Old Song (SHM-CD, UCCU-3200, stereo)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 6:44 PM
  20. Perhaps a touch hyperbolic, substitute Charlie Parker for Paul Desmond and I'd agree. Fine player though he was, his legacy is more on the lines of Johnny Hodges, a beautiful sound but it's his employer who gets the longer write up in the history books. Like you said, not too many game changers.
     
  21. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Chick Corea's Return to Forever and Stan Getz's Captain Marvel today.
     
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  22. Yesternow

    Yesternow Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    Well that's a tasty two course meal you got there sir. Let me suggest this one as a desert.
    Your palate is just ready for:
    [​IMG]
     
  23. dzhason

    dzhason Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    The kids have been occupying the living room and I’m stuck in the kitchen with the evenings mundane tasks, so why not liven things up a bit by streaming (through the kitchen Sonos) an album that I have on CD but haven’t played in ages:

    Thom Yorke - The Eraser

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  24. dzhason

    dzhason Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Return to Forever is one of my all timers, but I’ve never heard the Stan Getz. It’s amazing, though, no matter how large a music collection gets, there is always more good stuff out there waiting to be discovered. Hmm, the Thom Yorke is over and Captain Marvel is available to stream, so why not.

    Stan Getz - Captain Marvel

    [​IMG]

     
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  25. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    Desmond was the first alto player to come up after Parker that showed the world that you were not required to sound like Parker. That was pretty significant for his times. When Brubeck expanded the international audience for jazz in the 1950's (he did do that), it was Paul Desmond's sound that really was the "secret" draw. Nearly everyone went for Paul's sound.
     
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