Listenin' to Jazz and Conversation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Stu02

    Stu02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    NP Stephin Merritt’s opus
    69 love songs 3 CD box
    Impossible for me to believe this is almost 20 years old... damn..
    [​IMG]
    Not a bad song on it
     
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  2. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Celia...

     
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  3. Jim Walker

    Jim Walker Senior Member

    Location:
    southeast porttown
    Really been enjoying this one.


    [​IMG]
     
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  4. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    I actually neglected to post this last night--it was my first listen to that same reissue (mastered by Kevin Gray, I believe). I could barely believe how wonderful it sounded on my system. It's also an album I've neglected somewhat over the years--it was my first listening in any form on the main speaker system (as opposed to headphones or the car speakers). I'd forgotten how interesting and varied the performances are throughout--I believe I prefer it overall to any of the famous Prestige quintet sessions.
     
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  5. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    Just had a first listen to the ORG Music LP of Thelonious Monk's Underground. I'm sad to say (especially so soon after my earlier post about my bad luck with non-fill on Grundman/Bellman mastered jazz 33s on various labels) that it was plagued with non-fill, possibly even more than the Cecil Taylor album I was discussing in the earlier post. Otherwise, the mastering sounded good (though not quite as natural on my system as most Kevin Gray masterings), and the music is wonderful (with "Ugly Beauty" and "Green Chimneys" being the standouts for me). I think I may have to look for an alternative pressing. I notice there's one on Music on Vinyl (which usually does decent work, albeit usually from hi-res digital sources). Anyone heard that one, or heard anything about it? Are there any other recommended pressings that would be relatively easy to find in minty condition?
     
  6. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    What does non-fill sound like? Was it a problem during the original LP era? (Almost all my LPs are pre-1990.)
     
  7. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    [​IMG]
    1997 32 Jazz reissue of two Muse albums. Live! was recorded at Folk City, NYC, 9/72. With Ron Thomas (el p), Tyrone Brown (Fender b) & Sherman Ferguson (d). Producer: Don Schlitten. Engineer: Michael Delugg. Consciousness was recorded at Generation Sound Studios, NYC, 10/7/74. With Eddie Green (el p & perc), Tyrone Brown (b) & Sherman Ferguson (d & perc). Producer: Michael Cuscuna. Engineer: Tony May. Remastered by Gene Paul at DB Plus Digital Services, NYC.
     
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  8. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    Non-fill has a distinct sound that's hard to describe--it sounds almost like cloth tearing when it is in longer bursts, and more like a brief crunching sound in shorter bursts. It's usually in only one channel, and doesn't sound quite like the pops or tics of debris or scratches. It's caused by sections of vinyl not cooling properly and thus not quite filling the grooves, and our host has said that it's exacerbated by high dynamic range in 33 rpm records. Consistent with that, every single instance of it I've encountered has been with dynamic jazz recordings on 33 (and all but one of the now five examples I've experienced have been mastered by Bernie Grundman and/or Chris Bellman, though I've seen reports of Kevin Gray mastered Music Matters 33s having the problem as well). I get the impression it is primarily a phenomenon only with more recent pressings, and I've never seen it reported with 45 rpm pressings. I should point out that out of well over a thousand LPs, I've only experienced it five times now, but having two of those five times occur in the last few days is kind of frustrating.
     
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  9. xybert

    xybert Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Cookin'
    Steamin'
    Workin'
    Relaxin'
    (and also Miles: The New Miles Davis Quintet)

    I have the individual albums but just to mix it up a bit, i'm listening to them via the last three discs of the 'Chronicle - The Complete Prestige Recordings 1951-1956' set.

    I love these recordings so much. A bit like Coltrane's My Favourite Things, they make me feel better when i'm down, they make me feel even better when i'm up. It's crazy, i used to think that they were so boring. I always rated the Second Great Quintet so much higher, and it's not like you have to pick one over the other or any of that BS, but holy cow, i just never would have imagined that the First Great Quintet recordings would become such head over heels favourites of mine.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. markp

    markp I am always thinking about Jazz.

    Location:
    Washington State
    Sunny live!!!
     
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  11. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    I quite like my MOV copy of Underground and I also have Straight No Chaser and Misterioso as well. If you can get past what they're sourced from you'll be treated to quiet surfaces and a bold dynamic presentation.
     
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  12. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    It might be a controversial opinion, but give me the First Great Quintet (as heard on the Prestige recordings- Workin', Steamin' etc) over the Second Great Quintet any day. Until Miles started shaking things up with the SGQ on Miles In The Sky and Filles De Kiliminjaro, Miles Smiles is the only Second Great Quartet album I really like...albums like ESP, Nefertiti and Sorcerer all sounded the same to me. That said, though, Tony Williams basically makes the Second Great Quartet for me.
     
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  13. xybert

    xybert Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Yeah Tony Williams is otherworldly on those albums. The SGQ is/was god-tier for me; in my opinion arguably THE greatest band of all time, any genre. But these days, i have cooled on them a tiny tiny bit. To my ears there’s just something ever so slightly affected/too-clever/prog about them. I’m just thinking aloud here; again, i worship(ped) them and i know in a month or so i’ll be on a SGQ kick again and be posting about how i can’t believe i ever had even the slightest doubt. It’s just the buzz i’m on at the moment where for some weird reason i’ve formed a bit of distaste for some of the progressive stuff of the 60s. Again, just thinking aloud, i know it will pass.
     
  14. LEONPROFF

    LEONPROFF Forum Resident

    Miles Smiles is sounding really good this morning.
     
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  15. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Maybe it doesn't help that I "binge listened" ESP, Sorcerer and Nefertiti in one long morning listening session last week, but it seems to me that on those albums a lot of the songs have these 'cookie cutter' type arrangements: statement of theme/trumpet solo/sax solo/piano solo/recapitulation of theme-end. Pretty predictable after awhile. Not saying "boring" necessarily- simply based on those guys' individual chops the Second Great Quartet was anything but boring but I can see why Miles found it increasingly necessary to want to switch things up, experiment with electric instruments and whatnot. At that point in his career something needed to give, I don't think he wanted to carry on making Nefertiti, Part 17. Hence, I suppose, tracks like "Stuff" (one of my favourites) and Filles De Kiliminjaro. But I sorta get the impression that some of the other members of the Quartet weren't necessarily digging it. I can see, for example, why Davis brought in Dave Holland to play bass on some of the Filles tracks- IMO Ron Carter sounds uncomfortable playing an electric bass. Just my take on it...
     
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  16. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues Thread Starter

    You know Ron may well have been uncomfortable playing an electric bass, the two basses are very different instruments! I think he created very effective bass lines. Holland possibly had more experience playing the electric instrument, sounds that way to me. Different artist indeed, different playing.

    I don't know, the FGQ was formulaic too, and probably more so. . . I love them both but reach for the SGQ more, there's just more atmosphere and mystery in the recordings.
     
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  17. Yesternow

    Yesternow Forum pResident

    Location:
    Portugal
    (IMO) Some of the magic on those early "fusion" albums probably comes from the fact that this was so new to them. The structure of the songs and even the instruments.
    Dave Holland is one of the best, but even he is kind of struggling. I think you can tell by the way he holds the instrument.

    I'll re-watch this DVD tonight. Got it pretty cheap. Has some nice interviews and the amazing performance at the Isle of Wight.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  18. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member


    Hands down my favorite Miles Davis music -- those '56 original quintet sessions for Prestige. That stuff and the '54 Miles Davis with Sonny Rollins sessions, are the Miles Davis music I return to most. Personally, I never really fell in love with the '60s quintet. I grew to like the '60s band's output more and more over the years, especially Shorter's compositions. And I always loved Tony Williams' drumming. But the '50s quintet, especially it's final Prestige recordings, the hard bop date with Rollins, the Birth of Cool stuff, the first two albums with Gil Evans, that's all a lot more my cup of tea than anything by the '60s band.
     
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  19. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Indeed- the '56 original quintet albums are, aside from the "electric period" stuff, my favourite Miles Davis music. Those are the two "eras" I return to the most.
     
  20. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues Thread Starter

    Thank God we're all different.

    Right now back to this wild music by Hermeto Pascoal. . . .disc 2.

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Not that controversial an opinion. It my circle of personal friend that kind of esteem for the '50s quintet generally and those Prestige dates in particular is a common notion. I think some of the later performances by the band for Columbia -- like "All of You" in particular but also "Bye Bye Blackbird" and "Dear Old Stockholm" are as good as anything from those two Prestige sessions. And there's some other stuff for Columbia, like the first quintet version of "Little Melonae," where I'm not sure the band quite got wherever they were trying to go, but which still have amazing qualities.

    The '50s quintet had such a short recording career, and frankly was so plagued by drug problems (maybe the reason that it's earliest recordings aren't always either very fiery or even very well played, especially on Coltrane's part), and then after it was augmented with Adderly, was being pushed by Miles into such a very different, proto-modal direction, that I think to some folks, especially to those listeners who are album-centric listeners, it almost feels like the band is a blip, its recordings scattered here and there. But when I think of Miles Davis, I think of Miles fronting that rhythm section stepping up to the mic to play "My Funny Valentine," or "When Lights Are Low" or "All of Me" or "If I Were a Bell" or "Oleo."
     
  22. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Well, Miles always had his ear to the ground and was always moving on to the next thing, I don't know that he decided the '60s band was somehow boring. He just never stayed in one place for very long musically.

    But all the '50s and '60s stuff is pretty much the the standard bop small band structure of head, solos, head....maybe there was a feature for the rhythm section where the horns would lay out. If anything, the '60s band was much more formally elastic, with the kind of stretching and compression of tempi, than the '50s band, but you heard that more live than on record and especially on the Plugged Nickel date -- my favorite recordings of the '60s band -- where the band is deliberately playing "anti-jazz" or the opposite of what's expected, really deconstructing Miles' '50s rep. Shorter is just radical and explosive on those recordings, maybe my favorite Wayne Shorter playing on record! At least until it started experimenting with almost total inelasticity -- "Nefertiti" was, in some ways, the most radical number the '60s band ever recorded -- it has no solos and bridges, it's just that melody repeated, maybe Shorter and Davis are moving in an out of unison, and Williams is filling space, I know AB Spellman described it as a kind of concerto for drums -- but it's a whole different sort of bag and I think in a lot of ways set the mold for the early electric stuff which is more groove-based and harmonically and melodically narrow than a lot of Davis' earlier music.

    But Davis was a restless searcher and a guy who always had his ear to the ground and eyes on what people where doing -- Bird, or Gil Evans and Gerry Mulligan, or Horace Silver, or George Russell and Bill Evans, or John McLaughlin and Sly Stone, or whoever -- and often when to work with them as a way of changing the direction of his music. I mean, that's the essence of Miles Davis' career. I mean, maybe that means he got bored with what he was doing before, but that was Miles. He never stayed in one place too long and he was always looking to bring in new people to help him change direction.
     
  23. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk Sorry, I can't talk now, I'm listening to music...

    Location:
    Gilbert Arizona
    I'm enjoying my first listen to the new Al Di Meola album Opus
     
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  24. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    I have the same pressing and it is defect free. Sorry to hear of your bad luck. I haven't heard anyone else mention this issue with that pressing so it might not be a wide spread problem. Are you not able to return for a replacement?

    WP Carla Bley - Andando el tiempo (ECM) German pressing
    NP Monk - Monk's Dream

    I was in a dream state listening to Bley & Co. and then Monk's Dream woke me up!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  25. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    Continuing my Monk session...
    Misterioso (Riverside) Blue mono label
    W/Johnny Griffin at the 5 Spot!
     

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