Listenin' to Jazz and Conversation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. hockman

    hockman Forum Resident

    Yes, somewhat unexpected, isn't it? But I suspect these albums never sold in sizeable numbers . I started listening to jazz in the 80s and there was a lot of interesting new stuff happening then. One of my vivid memories was sitting thru' 3 sets of the David Murray Quartet (with Ed Blackwell!) at the Village Vanguard.
     
  2. Leeston

    Leeston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Listening to blue vinyl copy bought today

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    Also

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  3. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    I'm not aware of any reverb on Sonny's sax though it may actually be there, I'll have to pay attention the next time I listen. I was captivated by the clarity and immediacy of Shelly Manne's playing rather than any boxy colorations you may have observed that like you said may be a result of the close confines of the recording venue. All told this is a very enjoyable album and its hard not to be enamored with the quality of the performances these guys put on tape. Nice photo.
     
  4. yasujiro

    yasujiro Forum Resident

    Location:
    tokyo
    With a few exceptions like the first Japan version, every CD (as well as vinyl) of WOW has echo added on both channel on the mastering stage.
     
  5. Yesternow

    Yesternow Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    Played this one last night as well. CD instead of vinyl unfortunately.
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    The responsible for the artwork is the same guy who did "on the corner", " big fun" and "in concert": Corky McCoy.

    Miles had so many fresh ideas and great tunes, during that period, that unfortunately some had to be put aside.

    The "electric" tracks would've been more effective in 68/69 instead of 76 when it came out. But you don't hear that ambient/discovery sound anywhere else. I really enjoy them.
    Filles and Nefertiti are two of my favorite albums and this one is like a brother of those two.

    Said it before: a double "directions in music" album: Filles + Babies would've been nice.
     
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  6. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    The reverb is there. I've had a conversation about this album and the recording set up with with our host on this forum. I think it enhances a sense of left-right split that a lot of people complain about with the album. I don't want to make it seems like I'm slagging the album. I love it. And soncially it's special, but it's also a little odd in terms of the whole sound space. Which also goes to the drums. It's not a boxy coloration I'm hearing. Just the "space" the drums occupy on the recording. They sound like they're crammed into a small space in the left speaker -- and, looking at the recording setup there, they were!
     
  7. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I had a conversation with Steve Hoffman about WOW on this board about this. What he said was:

    So you have double echo, but the sax reverb which was done during tracking, is very noticeable. By contrast the drums and bass sound bone dry to me on my '80s OJC vinyl copy.

    If you listen to the later L.A.-recorded Contemporaries from the '50s, the recorded-dry-add reverb-later thing is much more obvious.
     
  8. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen https://soundcloud.com/porkchops-productions

    Personally I think I like Water Babies more than Sorcerer or Nefertiti, at the very least. Some of the stuff on Water Babies is just insane, like "Capricorn":righton: I agree that Water Babies should have come out in '68/'69.
     
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  9. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass.
    NP, the SHM-CD reissue.

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  10. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Well, there is really no shortage of modern (non-archival) jazz releases by both established and up-and-coming names and their quantity greatly exceeds your estimated numbers from the past.

    Enough to check what has been and is in the pipeline on the labels like Clean Feed, Firehouse 12, Rogue Art, Aum Fidelity, NotTwo, Intakt, ECM, HatHut, Leo, Winter&Winter, Between The Lines, Trost, ESP-Disk, Bruce's Fingers, NoBusiness, FMR, Ayler, For Tune, pfMentum, Moserobie, Label Bleu, Hubro, JazzLand, Greenleaf, Ramboy, Cryptogramophone, Tzadik, Rune Grammofon and many more. And all these labels put out physical releases, because if we ventured into the digital-only realm the number of new jazz releases would increase tenfold.

    Hence I have quite an opposite sensation - we are literately inundated with new music in an unprecedented way, with more popular artists releasing fresh material in different configurations every few months. My actual problem is the time required for sifting this avalanche to look up genuine nuggets (according to my tastes), not waiting for a new release from anyone! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  11. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Great news for the fans of the vintage British jazz with an imminent 3CD release of some recently unearthed sessions by the piano legend Gordon Beck:

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    Gordon Beck, English jazz pianist and composer, broke onto the London scene in the early 1960s, joining the Tubby Hayes group in 1962 and forming his own succession of groups from 1965 onwards. A subsequent 26 album career established him as one of the most important musicians in British Jazz before passing away in 2011. [...]

    Turtle Records is proud to present these excellent performances, now transferred and collated, which capture the group playing a variety of some well-known compositions plus a large number of Gordon Beck originals, which are surely a must for any serious modern jazz fan. They chronicle a peak period of creativity and performance by Gordon involving key line ups of his groups with musicians including a who’s who of British Jazz: Jeff Clyne, Johnny Butts, Ron Mathewson, John McLaughlin, Tony Oxley, Kenny Wheeler, Ray Warleigh, Chris Pyne, Frank Ricotti.


    More details in a separate thread:

    Gordon Beck Tapes, What to do with them?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  12. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Nice. Thanks for spreading the word and linking to the other thread.
     
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  13. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I do agree with you with regard to small independent label artists from outside the world of the few large music corporations, which control probably well over 90% of the music market (my guess), and that is where most newer jazz artists reside, probably because the major corporations have little interest. My comments were really an observation on a wide range of musical styles not just jazz. Across the spectrum of musical styles, and considering the massive music corporations, I still believe it is true that the current marketing approaches have substantially reduced the frequency of releases from more popular artists (in any style, including jazz) over the last 20 plus years, and that is sad.

    The approaches of years ago, where better known artists (jazz or otherwise) recorded extremely frequently (unless there were personal issues), seem to be at an end. I applaud the efforts of independent labels. Many recorded so frequently that session tapes were stockpiled for many long term future releases (Blue Note is an example)

    Today, many new artists (of all styles) must self produce on their own labels. This may sound like a great thing (freedom from control), but the nature of the marketplace (Amazon dominance, few stores, few distribution channels) is forcing the artists into virtual bankruptcy. I have spoken to many many of these artists who say they cannot really afford the initial costs (often $30,000 or more) just to self produce another release that has few sales channels. CDBaby can't help them all. The number of artists, even older well known established artists, who say it is too hard to justify a release is upsetting. It is wonderful when some of them triumph, and keep the music coming, but so many artist owned labels are seriously suffering.
     
  14. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Interesting article from Roger Friedman yesterday about a significant decline in music sales currently. It touches on recording frequency and touring:

    Record Sales Plunge as Top Artists– Justin Timberlake, U2, even Taylor Swift– Sell Fractions of Previous Numbers

    From the article:

    "Record sales are being touted these days as on a comeback. All you hear is: streaming will save us.

    But things are pretty dire. For example, Justin Timberlake’s “Man of the Woods,” touted so highly on the Super Bowl and a hit in its first week, has been a total sales stiff. As of this week, “MoW” has sold just 285,000 copies.

    Contrast this with Timberlake’s “20/20 Experience,” which was the best selling album of 2013 with 2.5 million copies. (Luckily, Justin had a smash single last year with “Can’t Stop the Feeling.”)

    Even worse: U2’s “Songs of Experience” has taught us nothing. It had great songs, like Timberlake, but they didn’t save the situation. “Songs” has sold just 250,000 copies total. Remember U2? Their sales used to be huge...

    ...Columbia Records in particular is suffering. While parent Sony Music has kept up on the charts with the Epic label, and RCA, Columbia’s name has not been on the charts in months. Their Harry Styles solo album has sold only 375,000 copies to date— no amount of PR or touring has moved it close to 500,000 copies and gold status.

    This past week’s chart should alarm everyone. The top selling CD/paid download was “The Greatest Showman” with just 38,453 according to BuzzAngle. Including streaming, the top seller was “Black Panther” soundtrack with 78,000 copies.

    Where are the music fans? Back in the day, as they say, artists churned out music. Now it comes in a dribble, drip, drip, drip. A malaise has set in, that’s for sure, among rock stars."

    Can't help but think that jazz/improvised sales are a fraction of what mainstream pop music's are. If the big timers are dipping significantly, I wonder if jazz sales are declining as well, or since they were likely small in the first place, are they remaining constant?

    Another interesting article about Sony records and their current troubles:

    "12 Tone doesn’t even have to put out physical product– no one wants it anyway unless it’s from a legend or it’s a special boxed set. The whole thing can be digital."

    Sony Music’s Coming Shake Up Sends Industry Giant Doug Morris to Start New Label
     
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  15. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass.
    When we've turned our back on a great artist like Justin Timberlake, we've truly lost our way as a culture.
     
  16. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Talented guy, I'm not a fan since I haven't purchased any of his music. I only hear it on an occasional radio listen. I'm guessing these top selling artists are being used a measuring sticks for growth/plunge in sales overall.
     
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  17. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass.
    Well, he actually is a talented guy, and no one around here will cheer the continuing demise of physical media.
     
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  18. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass.
    NP-- the OJC reissue does not, however, include any trigger warnings.

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  19. yasujiro

    yasujiro Forum Resident

    Location:
    tokyo
    JZ’s conceptual beauty still keeps its great impact after all these years.

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  20. yasujiro

    yasujiro Forum Resident

    Location:
    tokyo
    GET CARTER


    (Michael Caine turns 85 today.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  21. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Disc 2!

    Cannonball Adderley "Walk Tall: The Axelrod Years"

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  22. scompton

    scompton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    A few times a year, I get a notification of an artist releasing a few new album for download on the same day. A few years ago Peter Brotzmann released 6 albums on the same day.
     
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  23. Destroysall

    Destroysall Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Listening to Waltz for Debby on CD, a 1993 reissue of the 1987 release. Finally getting around to hearing it on my Tannoy Saturn speakers and it's wonderful! I feel like I am back in time watching the trio play at the Vanguard. Accompanying me on this experience is a delicious Blonde Vanilla Latte and Cheese Danish from Starbucks. Yes, I am happy. :p
     
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  24. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    Agreed. In today's world the older recordings are looked at as assets more than art. Instead of building "new assets" the labels keep releasing the same recordings ad nauseam. It's short sighted imo but then I'm not the one with the MBA. The worst part of that equation is that BN isn't doing a good job of releasing the older recordings. If a small label like MM or AP can make high quality reissues from the recordings, why can't the parent company which is part of a much larger conglomerate? They obviously could as it's not a trade secret. They just don't care enough. :realmad:
     
  25. Yesternow

    Yesternow Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    For a full interactive "Bill Evans - Waltz for Debby" experience make sure you have your drink on a real glass. If not you won't be able to participate on the background audience "noise".

    Check this photo as an example for items that can be used:
    [​IMG]
     
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