Lost: The Sixth and Final Season-"The End" (Part 3)

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Mark, May 25, 2010.

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  1. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

    Strange: there's still the question of why Christian's body was NOT in the coffin when Jack FIRST FOUND IT, in the cave!!
     
  2. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    Nice work! Thanks for taking the time.

    Regarding the statue: that's Tarawet, an Egyptian goddess/angel, representing the Nile and the fecundity that the Nile brings. This is a pretty accurate representation, and Tarawet has four toes.

    As a fertility goddess/angel, it's occurred to me that because the statue was broken, somehow fertility issues develop. (An ancient Egyptian would see it this way, the destruction/maiming of the statue would have bad repercussions). What doesn't hold up there though possibly is that Ethan was born seemingly without problem, and Charlotte too. . . . Which lends some weight to the argument that it may have been radiation from Jughead's explosion which is responsible.
     
  3. kevintomb

    kevintomb Forum Resident

    Thats some great reading!

    Everyone should read this. Perhaps it will better explain what was going on all along.
     
  4. RemarkablyInsincere

    RemarkablyInsincere Active Member

    You're really trying to paint things a certain way... but in reality, they answered very little about the world *they* created... took the easy way out and decided in the end since they never had any great resolution to the story, they'd make it character driven.

    The last Star Trek movie was more imaginitive than this.
     
  5. RemarkablyInsincere

    RemarkablyInsincere Active Member

    If I have to read a 7 page article to understand "what was going on", then that's poor story telling.
     
  6. TonyR

    TonyR Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta GA

    On the contrary, there are whole books devoted to explaining Shakespeare, Lord of the Rings, etc.
     
  7. I have to say this is the first time that Jensen's comments have been metaphysical hokem.
     
  8. GreenDrazi

    GreenDrazi Truth is beauty

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    How many new, original, scripted fictional TV shows have a guaranteed contract beyond the pilot or even the first season?

    No actor had a contract beyond season one and of course they are "making it up as they go along" because this is an original fictional TV show. They didn’t know originally if they would get past the pilot or later, even season one. Let alone, know how many seasons the show would play out. After it became a major hit, things changed quickly. And by season 3, they even had an end date for the show and knew where the story arc was headed. But they still have to write each season and each episode, so of course they were still "making it up."

    Jack Shepard was originally intended to die in the first episode with Kate taking on his role. But this script change occurred before Matthew Fox was even hired and only represents that ABC has a role in the making of the series (understandable considering the costs involved) and that this was an original fiction story. Matthew Fox said he did know from the start that his character would die with a shot of his eye closing as symmetry to the start. Changes happen, but this doesn’t mean that there was no idea for the arc, nor any idea where this was going.

    Citing Walt and Eko character changes only proves that the writers have to adapt to changes in their actors real lives and this doesn’t mean that they didn’t have an idea where the characters were originally intended to go.
     
  9. teebo911

    teebo911 The Professor

    The writers have stated that Eko's original role and purpose was shifted to Ben's character after the actor that played Eko asked to leave the show. Eko was to be the vehicle that MIB would use to manipulate someone (or Eko himself) into killing Jacob. If you rewatch those seasons, you can see them start to setup Eko for this role.

    Sometimes crap happens when you write a show. You adapt. It wasn't really about 'this particular character must do this thing at this particular time'. It was 'we want to show something, and we just need to make sure we have the pieces setup to do it'.
     
  10. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    My two cents:

    The rational/intellectual part of me acknowledges that "it was all about the characters" and that real life is full of unexplained mysteries/things that just are. Someone earlier posted a very engaging piece to this effect and intellectually I absolutely accept it.

    But...

    the emotional part of me still feels frustrated and let down because many of the mysteries that I had grown attached to and was keen to discover answers to were left unexplained. Sure, I enjoyed the whole ride. Sure, I enjoyed the ending. And this is the important thing, at the end of the day.

    But those of use who have opined that the show was "all about the characters" have, in my opinion, got this only half right.

    If the show was ENTIRELY character-driven, it would have been Lord of The Flies. Each cliff-hanger would have been along the lines of "Will a ever meet b again? Will c realise that d isn't who she thinks he is? How will they all find redemption?" etc etc etc.

    Instead, without fail, each cliff-hanger was a plot line: the hatch, the bomb. Each big twist was a plot twist: the dicovery of the Others, the slow reveal about the Dharma initiative etc etc.

    LOST differentiated itself from other "stranded on a desert island" stories because of the mysteries of the island. To go to such lengths over 6 seasons to set out those mysteries, many of which weren't even necessary for the development of the plot (like the statue) and then write them all off as merely a "means to an end" is, I feel, to leave half of the story (and the magic of the programme) unresolved.

    Put this in perspective: I've enjoyed LOST thoroughly. I enjoyed the ending. But I still feel let down by the story-telling aspect and I slightly resent the implication that has been presented by several posters that either I've missed the point or not understood it. I've done neither, but while intellectually I can accept that not everything could or should be answered, emotionally I feel let down.

    In the end how each character's story was resolved was neither here nor there. Some died, some didn't. Which ones lived and which didn't was irrelevant. What was important was the story of how they got there. And the storytellers chose to use great doses of mystery and then didn't provide resolution to that aspect.
     
  11. GreenDrazi

    GreenDrazi Truth is beauty

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Nearly all of the characters you list were “resolved.” Widmore was killed by Ben, Desmond was dragged out of the cave by Jack and remained on the island, Penny is a minor character to support Desmond, Walt - we all know his real life height burst killed-off that character and Richard lost his immortality and made it off the island. Honestly, the core “Losties” along with Ben were the focus of the show and were resolved very well. You would need several more seasons to resolve the other characters.

    Do you know the rules or physical laws of purgatory? No one else claims to have been there and sent post cards back that I know of.

    It was very clear that this was Jack’s “awakening,” not the entire cast of people from the island.
     
  12. semidetached

    semidetached Monkees Mixographist

    Location:
    Bucks County, PA
    Extremely well put.
     
  13. cooper16

    cooper16 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thanks for pointing this out, lots of good observations there. I particularly liked this part, which is relevant to much of the discussion here:

    One sharp observation he made was regarding Jack's appendix scar that appeared this season. It was a clever clue because it turns out it wasn't the result of the his on-island appendectomy but a foreshadowing of how he actually died.
     
  14. Ray K.

    Ray K. New Member

    Location:
    Philadelphia (PA)
    Not sure if this was posted but it kind of sums up a portion of my thoughts on the subject... (from the Gaurdian)

     
  15. tcj

    tcj Senior Member

    Location:
    Phoenix
    For starters, Jack wasn't depressed. I didn't see him depressed at all. He started out sad because his dad was dead, but then we saw encounters with his son that made him wake up and realize he could change things, and from then on, he was a changed man and is at peace both with himself and his son. Redemption. Locke was in the wheelchair and still fighting everything, but finally comes to realize that he needs to accept that this is his reality. When he does, he finds peace . . . and then accepts that taking the chance on the surgery could be for the best. Redemption. Ben was alone, but cared for his student Alex, and we only began to see the first steps of redemption for him, and that's why he stayed behind. He was beginning to have the very things he never had in life. I'm sure he would have gone on to be a good step-father to Alex with Rousseau as his wife, and that would lead to full redemption.

    I think if you were looking for a spiritual solution to the story, you got it. I found it satisfying on that level. We just didn't get much else, and that is frustrating.
     
  16. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    That's excellent...Do you have a link? I can't find it on the Guardian...
     
  17. tcj

    tcj Senior Member

    Location:
    Phoenix
    I wouldn't put too much thought into that. A new series isn't likely to sign actors for a long period of time and we all know that everyone on this show, aside from Matthew Fox, has been kept in the dark about their character's arc all along.

    There's really no point in arguing anything that's not part of the actual show. So what if it's from a first script? That never made it to air so it has nothing to do with what we saw. Lots of things get changed before we ever see them.

    And, obviously, they did have plans for Eko but he hated being in Hawaii and so they had to write him off the show. You have to give the show a little room to breathe, you know. What if a major actor had died, say Matthew Fox or Terry O'Quinn? They have to either replace them or work around it. Try to not be so completely inflexible with a long running TV show.
     
  18. cooper16

    cooper16 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    You're correct, it wasn't ENTIRELY character-driven or ENTIRELY mystery driven but a balance of both. I think the title of the series illustrates this duality perfectly. Yes they were "LOST" on the island, but the characters were also "LOST" emotionally as well.

    I think it's pretty funny that the supporters and detractors are lining up as either "Men Of Faith" (it's about the characters!) or "Men Of Science" (it's about the mysteries!). :D
     
  19. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Taken from the Guardian quote: "There was no omnipotent narrator on the show, there isn't one in life. What they don't know, we don't know, what Jack doesn't know, we don't know".

    This is factually incorrect: we were given two entire flashback episodes "Across the Sea" and "Ab thingy" which told us the backstories of Jacob/MiB and Richard respectively. I'm not aware that the Losties were ever given those backstories (at least, not entirely. I'm aware that Jacob engaged in a fireside chat which may well have covered off camera more background, but I doubt he told his entire lifestory in the way the episode did).
     
  20. bonjo

    bonjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Detractors are not saying, "it's all about the mysteries". Please put that straw man to rest.

    For more info, read the posts from the past few days.
     
  21. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    As a side issue, just while I think of it, I always found the explanation for Walt's disappearance from the show to be very poor. In a show that made a virtue of time travel, flash forwards etc, to complain that he grew too fast is, frankly, pathetic.

    Surely, they could have written a storyline that involved an older Walt returning to the island???
     
  22. Aggie87

    Aggie87 Gig 'Em!

    Location:
    Carefree, AZ
    That or some mysterious condition he develops that makes him age quicker than everyone else.
     
  23. Vinyl-Addict

    Vinyl-Addict Groovetracer Manufacturer

    Location:
    USA
    A question I haven't seen addressed is when Sayid was told to how to kill MIB by not letting him speak (or by Sayid not speaking a word, can't remember exactly). He was to just walk up to him and stick the dagger in him.
     
  24. PNeski@aol.com

    [email protected] Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    "The end was perfect. Think about it. "

    This guy is too much of a Fan ,to judge Why does Ben get to live,whats his
    body count?? Imagine if they could go back in time and Get someone like
    Rod Sterling to write the final show.Imagine how much better the show would be!

    it was fun at times ,but they clearly were making it up as they went a long
    and felt like at the end of season 3 or 4 They would prove to us they had
    a plan ,season 4 and 5 were fun,but most of this season they were trying
    to show us they had a plan and bored me a lot this season most of the
    time. trying to tie up loose ends with stuff like that stupid the twins show.
     
  25. teebo911

    teebo911 The Professor

    This was addressed, indirectly. Sayid was given the dagger, and told that if MIB said anything, it would be too late. MIB gave Richard the exact same dagger, and said the exact same thing about stabbing Jacob.

    Where else have you seen this dagger? That's right. It was MIB's dagger from Across The Sea. He stabbed 'mother' without her saying a word. Thus, like much of the 'rules', this rule exists because that is how it was always done before, starting with MIB in the year 43.
     
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