Lost: The Sixth and Final Season-"The End" (Part 3)

You're correct...that's why many of us call it bad writing. Not being able to fit stuff into your own narrative...that's like painting yourself into a corner.

Whoops!

 

They did a decent job of ending it...but to laud it as something special is to forget that they were too ambitious, and had to settle.

It should be heaped on the same pile as the X-Files...fun, ambitious, but ultimately the writers bit off more than they could chew.

 

I'd like to clarify that it should be sitting several feet above X-Files...but still the same pile.

 

I don't need to know every answer, but I do need to be convinced that the writing staff knew what the answer was when they first presented the questions. THIS is why mystery writers start with how the crime was committed and who did it and THEN work backward. I'm curious if the producers are ever gonna do Q and A sessions at Comicon (or anywhere else appropriate) as promotion once this season comes out on disc. Even if they didn't come up with answers by the time the finale was written, maybe they have time to make up some answers between now and then.

 

I'm debating this in another forum as well, and one of the members there writes scripts...or fixes them when needed. I can't give his name, because it's recognisable and he prefers his anonymity...you'll understand once you read it. While I could have summed it up... or been a poser and pretended it was mine, lol... it would be a disservice to everyone with a sense of humour to not post it in this, it's slightly-edited-for-Hoffman-board-standards form.
Here's his take, and please remember that he's very tongue in cheek, so no offense should be taken by writers/ movie head honchos/JJ Abrams or fans there of, because he didn't post it for this board, the one where he did post it is more intimate and he often uses a scathing sense of humourous so we know to use the grain of salt.....here it is;

Do you know how LOST was born? That ******* "Survivor" series, people are tested and then voted off the island, was hot and ABC decided they wanted something along those lines, only a scripted drama.

So someone calls JJ Abrams and says "Whaddya think?" So he blows a couple bowls, has several drinks or does whatever he does and comes up with the pilot with no clue or responsibility as to where it might lead. He shoots it and the honchos ****ing love it. They test it and BAM! Off the ****ing scorecards.

They try to sign JJ to more, but he's already got other irons in a bunch of fires and when word of the pilot gets out, they start throwing features at him. TV series are a grind. Features are more prestigious and they pay a lot more. JJ tells them to run with Lost on their on, but he'll hang around the edges.

So it gets handed off to a couple other producers --I'm not clear if the same two guys who ended up finishing it-- but I suspect there were dozens of cream chesse-sticky fingerprints all over it before Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse got full control.

Whoever finished out season one, was making it up as they went while trying to figure out where it should go with Disney/ABC breathing down their necks.

My guess, GUESS is that about halfway through season Two, Disney liked their numbers, but was getting concerned about the story meandering. They started leaning on the producers who more than likely in turn went back to JJ and asked what they should do. By then he was off the charts and more than likely said "Figure it out on your own. I'm in pre for 'Star Trek.' I ain't got time for TV."

Again, guessing, at the end of season two they hired a couple three or maybe four feature writers to map out a story. They probably flew them out to Hawaii for a long weekend at an uppity resort and said "Where do we go?"

TV writers and feature riters are related only in that they use the same alphabet to hunt and peck words. TV writers tend to be very linear because they have to be in order to tell a story from week to week to week. Feature riters tend not to care because they don't have to and they can make in two weeks what TV writers can make in two years. And, feature riters, because budgets are never a concern to them, think in massive scales.

Anyway, at that meeting in Hawaii, the first thing the producers did was flowchart what had already happened in the series. The feature riters said: "We need a time frame."

See, feature riters know they have about two hours or 120 pages to git 'er done. That's how they operate and plan. TV writers try to have no end because as long as the series runs, they keep getting paid.

So Disney/ABC says to the feature riters: "How long can you keep this going?" The feature riters respond with: "How much money do you have?"

The next day, probably, they meet again after Disney/ABC has crunched numbers. Disney says: "We can do two more years."

The feature riters, who were out drinking together the night before because all feature riters are alcoholics, countered with eight years.

Disney offered three. The riters demanded six and then they ended up agreeing on four mainly because the WGA strike was looming and everyone involved was terrified they'd have to get real jobs.

So, they mapped out the next four seasons, focusing on essentials like the fact that male model Josh Holloway and smoking hot Evangeline Lilly had to be in pretty much every episode. Hugo had to stay because everyone loved him and Ben had taken on a life of his own that could not be denied.

So, all these wandering storylines had to be wrapped in about 60 more episodes.

Could it have been done better? Maybe. But as the feature riters correctly argued, they would need a minimum of least 100 more episodes.

 

Okay not trying to defend them at all.....

I realize season six kinda sucked compared to the rest of the show. My favorite season was one and two in that order and pretty much each sucessive season a bit lower.

But.......I dont think they ever intended on answering all the big mysteries. I think they hinted they would and that was their mistake. It wasnt "bad writing" so much but more like they somewhat mislead the viewers on the actual intent of the show overall and what the ending would entail. If all along they would have said "everythign or most things" were up to the viewers imagination or interpretation or belief or faith, I feel it wouldnt be so harshly judged.

Everyone keeps saying they didnt have answers, and ya that very true for a lot of details and many big ideas also. I think they may have had vague ideas for the explanations all along, but DECIDED it didnt matter.

They realized the mystery was the appeal of the show. Would an answer feel good in the end. Of couse...I agree totally. Would their answer be what I think it should be or you or someone else....Probably not.

Honestly I think an end with most things explained would have been more of an outrage...as most would very much disagree on their answers.

No one is gonna be happy ever with an end to a show that was mystery driven. It alternated between mysteries, characters, faith, science, reality, fantasy and over and over again. What true ending would have made most fans really happy and not insult their intelligence?

 

Musicalbeds, I believe that story is as close as we have got to the truth in all these pages. Thanks

 

The way I look at it, the producers and marketers of this show used their considerable experience to concoct a great promotion for this show, season after season. They offered the mysterious goings on and nature of the island as a hook and a line and a sinker. And it worked really well. I really enjoyed being towed along.

I don't see any of what happened in the final season to be "bad writing." I honestly believe that the creative team knew full well going into the season how much they were going to divulge, and how they were going to present it. And they went with the dual character story-telling line in a novel way (for network tv at least) and brought that new "reality" to a resolution, and it was a really interesting twist on an oft-predicted outcome. I really have to admire their brave decision to show only so much and no more.

When it concluded I sat back with the memories of six years of broadcast and three years of watching dvds and Blu-Rays and felt very satisfied at one helluva rollercoaster ride. And I honestly am happy to think about the remaining questions I have about the island and its history. . . and I'm happy to draw my own conclusions, mull over some scenarios, I don't NEED the show to have just blurted them all out. I'll wait and see what the book brings in August. So I've a few months to process the series in my noggin. Free fun continues.

They did tell us two definitive things about the island: it's not a "Purgatory" and it's REAL. Or so it seems to me. And actually, that's a lot to work with.

I guess I can understand the ire and indignation and scorn of those who felt insulted with the ending. But it's hard, I admit. I just have a different personality, and it appears I was watching "Lost" for a very different purpose than these viewers were. I've known it was a soap opera all along, an innovative one with lots of adventurous elements, and it stayed true to THAT to the end.

 

Hi Wayne,

Didn't see your post about UBIK, so I'll go look for it.

It's amazing to me when I really think about it how insidiously pervasive an influence Dick's work has become in the visual arts. It was really a fortuitous stroke of fate that Ridley Scott and Blade Runner fell into Dick's life in the final chapter. His ideas flew faster than they could have with the printed word.

 

My only quibble was the timeline...I think it was during season three, not two, that Disney got worried. IIRC, the numbers did go down, and the Paolo storyline was getting bad reviews.

I think up until then, they were doing a "Gilligan", making up stories with no end in sight, and as the quote says, the chain of leaning started and we got the announcement of the series being finite.

 

Its kind of crazy, but I've been bummed all week since the finale. I am gonna miss these guys. I truly hate television and this was one show I looked forward to.

 

I should also point out, the paragraph is actually supporting the 'riters', explaining they did well with what they had.

I've been attacking it, he's been defending it...and he posted that during the debate.

I told him, which I haven't made clear here, that I liked the show, but feel calling it a masterpiece, or equating it with the Soprano's, is lowering the bar of greatness.

It's much better than X-Files, but it sits in the same pile because of the inability to tie up their ambitious start in a manner which should receive accolades.

Was it a fun ride? Yep, but the ending dropped the ball a bit, and for those of us who hate commercial breaks, the emotion wasn't enough to wrap it up nicely.

And the writers should know their medium...using an emotional finale on a show with advertising breaking up the spell...it was a gamble, and I feel they LOST.

 

I haven't missed it yet, because I haven't let go.....where's Christian when I need him!

 

That’s it? Aaron and the children? Both were back story elements with one being a redemptive element for core characters (Aaron - Charlie & Kate) and the other was just to provide storyline depth via history of the island (birthing children, Dharma, jughead) and an element of horror (kidnaping children). And as I said, these "mystery" questions were answered already - see teebo911's post #40. They are storylines that served their purpose. Or did you want a "Lost Kids" spin-off series?

And as for their use as plot elements, the children as a group became very tertiary (except Aaron) as did nearly all of The Others as the storyline shifted away from The Others vs. The Losties to the Rescue and all that unfolded after. Aaron would later become Kate’s redemption as she finally found a purpose in life and later, her primary reason for returning to the island to bring Claire back to Aaron. These are not dead ends, nor did they paint themselves into a corner (btw, 2 entirely different concepts) as you would later see the Dharma Initiative period give birth to children, you saw children with The Others and we would see the drama unfold with the birth of Jacob and MiB.

So, we’re still waiting for major storylines that were like holes in a quilt, painting yourself into a corner or, at the least, led to a dead end. And please read teebo911's post again because most of the answers are there.

”Etc.” is right. You can’t list them because you have no concrete examples of major storylines or mysteries that went unresolved or unanswered. I can understand someone saying that they don’t like the manner in which some of the story lines were resolved, but that’s an entirely different concept that saying they weren’t resolved.

 

I think the only good 'thing' that had a good 'loop theory' was "12 Monkeys"!

 

To 'number' a few:

1) The numbers

2) Jacob's list. It seems that list was not of the candidates

3) What was the criteria used by Smokey to kill people

4) What difference detonating the bomb did?

 

Really? That dialogue was on big ol' spoon. I thought that was pretty obvious. In fact so much so, that I thought it was completely unnecessary.

 

I think people that wanted literal answers to a series set on a "Myst" like island will never be satisfied with how the show ended.

Both viewpoints in this argument are probably valid, and folks aren't going to change their mind, so not really much point in trying to persuade someone on the other side of the fence, IMO.

The show ended the way the creators wanted to end it. Some folks liked that, others didn't. Fine with me.

 

Good news about BONUS FOOTAGE from Michael Emerson:
http://g4tv.com/videos/46136/Michael-Emerson-on-Lost-Finale--Hurley-Epilogue/

Now, let's hope it's on the REGULAR DVD, not just on Blu-Ray, or THE COMPLETE COLLECTION, or any crap like that!

 

Agreed. Still, most debates are just that, people discussing it and trying to present their side in a fashion that makes it undeniable... no one really believes they will change the others mind.

We'd have a bunch of threads saying "yeah, that was good" or "yeah that was bad" if we didn't discuss, contrast, and debate it using facts and theory.

 

1. The numbers were explained in two different ways, though one you didn't see on air. The numbers were associated with the candidates. This much, you see. The second explanation, which never aired, but was part of an official online 'experience' that delved into Dharma a bit more. It was part of the 'Valenzenti Equation' (might want to check the spelling on that), but there were values for a set of variables that predicted the end of the world. Dharma was trying to change the numbers.

2. It was established that Jacob had many lists, per Ben's comments.

3. Not explicitly explained, but left to use to figure out from what we see on screen. It kills those who aren't 'supposed' to be there (the pilot, it was supposed to be Frank). It cannot kill candidates, or Jacob. It won't kill people that it may have a use for until it is done with them. It scans and judges people. A good example is Eko. The initial meeting with Smokie was at a time when Eko was undergoing much personal growth. The second meeting, Eko was not sorry for his sins. Therefore, Smokie considered him to be one of those who 'comes, destroys, blah blah blah' and slammed him into a few trees.

(Sidenote: we often don't get motives for killers in real life, either)

4. Made a big difference, as well as a big whole in the ground, caused the radiation, let to the Swan having a button, etc. It was the 'incident' referred to since season 2. It just never reset the island timeline, as Jack had hoped.

 

Who was delivering the Darma food drops?

 

Anyone notice if Jack's
Mother was in the "church" ?

 

I think that the island was always somehow moving through time. The food drops actually happened years ago, but took that mount of time to actually land on the island. Somewhat like Faraday's experiment with the missile that he had launched from the freighter, that took much longer to arrive than it should have.

 

Relax. You are satisfied with the ending while some of us are not. I guess you win since it has indeed ended.