Lovely, restored Pioneer PL-518 turntable on eBay. Pretty, but worth it?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Dan C, Mar 14, 2013.

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  1. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    The Empire was a superb turntable, the 698 arm a weakness with age. But you can install a Jelco 9" arm on it and obviate that. The American Thorens.
     
  2. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Ok guys. I need your expertise on this as it's an old cart (I think). On the Pl-518 I had in the garage it has an Audio Technica N-20-110 cart with a Green Stylus. Looks close to what the current AT120e is. Does anybody out there in Hoffman land have any info you can give me on this cart?? A google search brought up some generic stylus replacements but It would be nice to get some info like original mfsl price/specs/ the years it was manufactured and so on. Something that kept coming up was a reference to an AT11E Cart. But I know AT used to soup up some of it's carts for different reasons, and this one does look pretty nice.
    Any help would be mucho appreciated-o by the beave.
    the beave
     
  3. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    A picture or link would help. But... I owned the AT11E as my first cartridge on the first turntable I bought with my own money. It had a green stylus and it sounded really great by my 1976 standards.

    There have variations on the AT11E which used the same green stylus. I think you have one of those variations but I need to look.
     
  4. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    That arm was gaudy and bulky really. It lacked a classy look. It looked like the handle on a cast iron skillet, except it was gold toned.
     
  5. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    I'll try and pop up a picture after work today. But the last couple of times I tried that on this forum, there was
    no provision to 'attach' a picture file. Just the options for including a URL. so maybe I'm going about it the wrong way. In fact I'm going to try right now to attach a pic of my living room stereo:
    Nope, wont let me-it''s just asking for a picture URL. That Blows.
    so how do I get a frickin picture loaded up here?

    the beave
     
  6. rockclassics

    rockclassics Senior Member

    Location:
    Mainline Florida
    You can't. They eliminated the ability to upload pictures to save on storage and bandwidth costs. Now you have to post the picture on an external site - like Flickr, etc. - and link to it. It is a pain in the ass and I have discontinued posting any photos, etc. here.
     
    randy9700 likes this.
  7. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Thank You RC. thought I was going mad.
    So now who would like to quote me a price to re-veneer my PL-518 Plinth in Black Mahogany? Or just a nice high quality Black finish.
    I've got 4 new feet coming and a new Stylus for the AT11E and 4 gold plated cartridge jumper wires cause the existing shell is missing the green lead, but I want to replace them all with gold ends anyway seeing as this might turn into my go to TT instead of My Music Hall MMF 5.1. Either that or I'm just bored after 16 years of marriage and grand children that I'd rather NOT see than see. Too much A.D.D. for me to handle.
    the beave
     
  8. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I'd like to bring my AT11E back into service as well. I am currently using the AT44La which has. Micro-Line stylus, which is not known as the ideal stylus for styrene 45s. So I could use that old AT11E for 45s only.

    I actually saved every cartridge and used stylus that I have ever had. Some of the boxes as well. It just seemed such little space to save them, why not.

    I figured that someone might need one that I had an extra of, or if I ran across a cheap but new stylus. I'd be glad I saved this junk. You never know
     
  9. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Quicksrt, here is the link to an Authentic AT 11E replacement for $30 postage paid, which is a pretty good deal:
    http://stereoneedles.com/audio-technica.html
    All the other sites I visited had knock offs and not the real AT needle.
    the beave
     
  10. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Thank you, I love looking at those older styli and seeing good quality pictures. I see my green one of course.
     
  11. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Yeah I just looked at the one that came with the 518 I want to restore and it looks (the stylus) like somebody took a bic lighter to it. But the cart itself looks almost like new so we'll see when the new stylus gets here.
    the beave
     
  12. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Well I did get an authentic new Stylus for the N-20-110 aka AT11E and the cartridge sounds as good as my Current AT120E! Nice extended high end and very tight bottom range. Midrange is liquid sounding. Listening to some Steely Dan and it's seductive. These carts were hand made in Japan so it's a keeper.
    Now to sell my MMF 5.1 and polish the Dust cover on the Pioneer PL-518. Excellent Quality Turntable. 30+ years old and the dang motor is still rock solid, even without quartz locking.
    the beave
     
  13. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    The Pioneer PL-518 in good order WILL RUN CIRCLES around the Rega RP1, and the Pro-Ject Debut in speed constancy, ease of use, ergonomics, and in rumble specification handily. And has useful features no neo belt drive has. Like easy cartridge changes, and pitch control. And it passes the Burgess Meredith test (see YouTube Pioneer PL 518 commercial). No speed box needed either.
     
    quicksrt and murphywmm like this.
  14. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    You're probably thinking of the 598, the 698 arm looked very nice.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    That's cool! I've been running it last night and playing some of the Beatles 180g vinyl and I'm really surprised at that AT cartridge. The sound is really really nice although I still cant find any information on this cart's specific pedigree-it's a N-20-110 although it seems to come from the AT11E family but I don't know if this is an 'upgraded' version or what. But it does sound almost identical to the new AT120E, which doesn't surprise me, what does surprise me is that a 30+ year old motor can still hold speed without quartz locking circuitry, with a little DeOxit sprayed on the pots. The motor itself is a monster, weighs about 5 pounds by itself but is different from the Technics design whereas the Technics made the platter part of the motor, on the 518 the motor is itself a complete unit with the platter sitting on top of it. But seriously, the cueing works like new, there was a bit of oxidation on the tonearm surface which I was able to buff out almost completely. But all in all, I really do think I'm going to sell my Music Hall 5.1 and if it sells, put part of the funds into a new wood based plinth. Then I will probably end up with the turntable I'll die with. Funny how I have gone full circle with this. Early youth: Pioneer Pl-112/Mid youth: Pioneer Pl-530/adulthood: Pioneer PL-550d/Old Fart: Music Hall MMF 2.2 red/Music Hall MMF 5 .1/back to Pioneer PL-518 direct drive.
    This is such a COOL hobby it's not even funny.
    as Jagger said: Thank You Lord!
    (Far Away Eyes there)
    the beave
     
  16. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It can sound worse than the AT11E not because it is a different family member, but because it is old. Cartridges can age, and not be exactly like they were in their new younger days. I found a new stylus for an old Stanton cart I had used 15 years earlier. I installed the cart with new needle perfectly and the siblence was unacceptable. The cart had (while stored away) developed a raspy high end somehow. So now I mess around with old carts and needles only when the whole thing is cheap or free. I stick with the AT 440MLa. But I am looking to reactivate one of my old ATs for styrene 45s, as the 440MLa is not idea for many of these singles.
     
  17. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    See I haven't had a lot of experience with retro gear. I did notice a massive sonic improvement with the AT120E when I put it on the MMF 5.1. Incredible fidelity from a cart for about $100. The reason I put the coin down for the 11E was the higher pedigree in the day and I didn't really know if just a new stylus would bring it back to life. But then again, I did not know that older carts can.....well get old sounding. But what you say makes sense.
    Now, I need to find four replacement feet for the 518 that will install with just the four screws that were on the original table. I've seen the Technics replacement but that involves breaking down the TT to the plinth and re drilling which I would rather not do. So if any of you Veterans out there have any good recommendations on a good economic replacement that also LOOKS GOOD, I would appreciate the help. But for now, the 514 feet with some support from our grand childrens foam carpet puzzle (don't laugh, it works!), is doing the trick right now.
    So just played Guess Who's greatest hits on an original RCA Dynaflex pressing (can you believe THAT?). and it sounded like an olds school 'blah' pressing, so now I'll go to a MFSL pressing of the first Boston album and see how that sounds.
    the beave
     
  18. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    No ****e! S/N 73 db! and W&F 0.03%. Ok guys with the Rega's and the Pro Jects. Let's see THOSE specs.
    I just re furbed my 518 over this past weekend, popped on a new AT120E and and now selling my Music Hall MMF 5.1. This over 30 year old turntable is absolute Gold when given some TLC. I just listened to Miles 200g 'Kind Of Blue', and I'll put this rig up against anything up to $2000.00. And NO howling either with the new 2" Sorbathane Isolate IT feet.
    the beave
     
    McLover likes this.
  19. 762rob

    762rob Forum Resident

    Great TT I have the black version PL 518X Nagaoka MP 110 cartridge surprisingly good!
     
  20. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    The Black Version is Gorgeous! One guy on eBay can make me a Black Oak Plinth for mine at $125, so maybe in the future I'd love to do that. Even with real wood veneer they look absolutely STUNNING!
     
  21. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Here is a picture of what mine looks like with the Sorbothane feet:
    Oh, I can't do Pictures, so try this link:

    http://www.oaktreevintage.com/Isolation_Feet.htm

    Works great and also a few things I did NOT know about the PL-518 that you might find interesting:
    1) This Model was tested by Pioneer engineers specifically to try and fully suppress Acoustic Howling (!). Really. The Plinth and Feet were engineered specifically for this on the 518. There's an actual picture of the setup Pioneer engineers used to see if they could make the 518 Howl, it's a total hoot:

    http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pioneer/pl-518.shtml

    Open the Brochure and the pictures in there, pretty cool. They did put some heavy engineering into this table.
    2) You don't ever oil the motor/shaft. The used oil Less lubricant and there is NO mention of motor servicing in the Service Manual.
    the beave
     
  22. Jim T

    Jim T Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mars
    I am in the throws of refurbishing a Pioneer PL 12d for a church friend and am awaiting a new $13, 23.6" belt to see if all is well. The old belt was very stretched and dry. The motor is still very strong and the tone arm very free and solid in the pillar. He should end up with a nice table to play his father's old vinyl. The belt should be here by Thursday.

    That arm on the 518 appears to be the same arm on the 12d.
     
  23. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    No, they are totally different arms. Look Here:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=pio...%2Fbild%2Fpioneer-pl12d-1_47582.html;1450;826

    totally different tone arms. It seems the '51x' series and the '56x' series was the last 'classic' era turntables for Pioneer. The 518 I have now refurbished has engineering that is lacking in the later Pioneer series turntables. They seem, at least by the engineering in the 516/518/520 that they were taunting Technics into seeing who could over engineer their turntables the most. I honestly cannot see any current TT by Pro-ject, Rega, and so on beating the engineering that is in these turntables. I mean back in that day, they were putting the industry's BEST design engineers to work on coming up with state of the art Tables. So too with Technics. As good as the current 'esoteric' brands tables are (and I use that term very loosely because back in the day, Pioneer, Technics, Kenwood, Thorens, Dual and so on WERE THE Tables to beat. Pro Ject and the like picked up the pieces after vinyl started dying, but those 'classic' era turntables STILL have specs, 30+ years on, that are almost impossible to beat under $2000. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but the engineering in the 518's tone arm ALONE put's my Music Hall MMF 5.1's tone arm, well, in the dust. The MMF seems almost amateur by comparison, and that is NO diss to Music Hall. Hell, I own the damn thing but it is what it is). To say that I'm impressed by this 30+ year old DD turntable is an understatement. I'm again listening to Miles 'Kind Of Blue' 200 gram and it is.........no words can describe how good this sounds. And I really Liked the way it sounded. But on the Pioneer with the same cartridge that I have on the 5.1 the Pioneer sounds much more 'fluid'.
    the beave
     
  24. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Here's my favorite Pioneer turntable. The mighty Elite: P90

    [​IMG]
     
  25. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Gregg!
    This is scary. We think alike. Onkyo 7030, and now classic Pioneer TT's! :righton:
    This is only the second time I've seen this Kit, I didn't know it even existed before now, And I've gone through a lot of Pioneer Turntables in my life.
    This is definitely a 'Statement' Table. Looks like it weighs 40 lbs! What a Stunning Table.
    How much did this list price for?? No wonder I never knew of it, I stuck to the $100 - $150 Pioneers, couldn't afford anymore. Until now and the internet! :goodie:
    You know the thing I'm really liking about the 518 is the ergonomics. I really like the way all the controls are grouped near the Tone arm. After owning a 530/550/570/560 the 518 for me has the right amount of amenities whereas even the 570, being fully automatic, seems 'too busy' for my tastes. But man, did Pioneer make a ton of nice turntables back in the day.
    the beave
     
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