LoVE's Forever Changes 50th anniversary celebration. Music, book...

I will ask Michael if this is the show where Arthur asked Michael to join Love.

LoVE, and Sons of Adam at the Whiskey! Sweet!

 

from Rock and Roll Roadmap
Ben Frank's - A Favorite Rock N Roll Hangout In The Sixties

 

I hope this isn't derailing the thread, but it may answer questions about the dvd:

I have question: the dvd will only play thru my RCA cables that I use for multi channel discs (SACD, DVD-A) but will not play thru my optical cables. I know the FC dvd is 96khz/24 bit, but I've played dvds before that display 96 khz on my receiver thru the optical cable (like when I play DTS instead of MLP surround on my King Crimson discs). Am I doing something wrong with the Forever Changes dvd? In order to play fake surround, I have to squash the settings to 48 khz which makes it no different than listening to the cd...

 

You bet. I don't think Michael is bragging at all. He is comparing his sound to a heavier pair of drummers, not talent wise. Though Michael was included in a book called Greatest rock drummers of all time...or something like it (I've read it). He is one of something like 14 drummers featured. And I agree. Also, Michael's frustration is with Botnick's original mix, which is often referred to as a bit muddled and flat. But Botnick finally had the chance to get it right (or much better) with the 50th FC box release. Michael and Kenny were justifiably a bit frustrated with the original mix, and I agree (IMHO) that the drums and bass were a bit TOO tastefully pushed back. I think if we had the chance to hear that incarnation of Love perform Forever Changes live, we would have heard a much heavier sound to that masterpiece. Like many artists, there is always that room for improvement, so listening to they work is difficult, and it's hard not to think, "How could I have done it just a bit better?".

This from Michael...I let him know that the remastering really brings out his and Kenny's parts like never before. Much heavier and "tastefully" brought up front, with highs and lows much better balanced and "forceful", with the muddled mix gone and a much more distinct sound and .great separation between all parts and vocals..Michael's words here :

Hi Scott,

Thanks again for letting me know Bruce fixed the drum sound somewhat [for the 50th box]. Even after fifty years better late than never -- it still makes me feel better about things.

Gratefully, Michael

 

Just colorized it for you all...great wall poster.

 

In the documentary Love Story, Johnny Echols mentioned that the first album was very tame compared to how they performed live at the time. He said the band wasn't happy with it, and led to he and Arthur agreeing that they should try to leave the label.

It makes sense seeing as they were Elektra's first rock band after only producing folk acts. I would love for a live album or footage to appear so that we could get some idea of the real deal. I'm surprised that there are no tapes of the original lineup from the massive Fillmore collection that started coming out years ago.

 

Yes! Where is the LoVE!?

 

The 50th set is currently £37.99 on Amazon UK https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B079JPP1QC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ... lowest price to date?

 

Well worth it at any price, but that is a DEAL! Love my LoVE!

 

Same price available at HMV
https://store.hmv.com/music/vinyl/forever-changes-(2)

 

This from a recent email I received from the always kind and open, Michael Stuart... on his overdubbing his drum part on "The Daily Planet".

................

Hi Scott,

Sorry for the delay getting back. Yes, that's a fabulous and beautiful poster! Nice score on your part. It is pristine. Actually I had never seen that one before, but it was from that special era for sure. As you know, Country Joe, Lee Michaels and Moby Grape were stalwarts of the Avalon and Fillmore lineup.

To answer your question...yes, after Elektra decided that the sound The Wrecking Crew got on Daily Planet and Andmoreagain was nothing like the group Love (and therefore not what they were looking for), they told us to take a few weeks off and come back in and see if we couldn't do the album ourselves. Which we did. Then the question became, "What do we all do with those two cuts the studio people recorded?". Kenny and Bryan and I rerecorded the foundation track on Andmoreagain and then Johnny came in later the same day or early the next morning and laid down his acoustic part.

I guess it was the natural human rebellion against total waste that prompted us to go ahead and keep their version of Daily Planet. Kenny had played bass on the original cut anyway, so he was on it right from the get go. And then while we were listening to a playback in the control booth, I said to Arthur, "You know, a drum fill would be nice right there" and he said "Cool, you want to overdub it?" so I did. Then Bryan and Johnny added parts as well, so we're all on Daily Planet.

As for Andmoreagain, I'm certain that members of The Wrecking Crew still believe to this day they recorded the instrumental track on that cut, but they didn't ...not on the version that was kept, anyway. The basic Andmoreagain track that appears on the album was recorded by Kenny, Bryan, Johnny and me.
As always, thanks so so much for saying good things about my drumming on Forever Changes.

Take care my friend,
Michael


.................................................

My original questions and observations:

Hi Michael,

Its's been a while...how are you? Hope you are having a nice autumn (does Vegas have autumn? Or just a cooling off and winding down of summer? Much different than Tahoe I'm sure).

All's well here. Just acquired a mint Family Dog Productions1967 Avalon Ballroom poster.

Kinda beautiful! Was trying for a Love/Moby Grape poster but no go.

SO my question: I was listening to The Daily Planet today. The new remaster by Botnick is especially distinct with all the parts having amazing separation. You drum parts throughout are fantastic.

The thing about "The Daily Planet" is that (and you related this) there are two distinct drummers. One in the left speaker (which is the backbeat with some fills), and the right speaker has more complex fills and essentially very cool mini solos.

My thinking is that the left speaker is Jim Gordon's original part (not Hal Blaine as is always reported), and your part is in the right speaker with your strong creative fills; overdubbed later. My understanding from you, if i am correct, is that the Wrecking Crew session was too sterile so that when you all were brought back in, all the parts were overdubbed so that, unlike the false "facts' in every entry in liner notes in subsequent reissues, Love was actually on EVERY track. The Wrecking Crew is underneath and Love is on top on just The Daily Planet (no other), restoring the stronger distinct Love sound to the overall recording...

I would love to hear if my guess on the drummers is right. No other track on Forever Changes has two distinct drum parts--one in each speaker.
Thanks ahead for any thoughts you can share.

All my best to you and yours, Michael. Forever Changes sounded so sweet driving back to Orr's Island today, I just had to get in touch.

Cheers to you, my friend,
Scott

 

I wish that once and for all, they would get this story right in the liner notes of Forever Changes.

All the members of LoVE play on every track of Forever Changes, and on NO track is it exclusively The Wrecking Crew.

And it is Jim Gordon, NOT Hal Blaine that played drums on "The Daily Planet". Michael was there for the session when Gordon took over his drum kit. Michael knew Jim Gordon and Hal Blaine called in sick that day. Johnny insists it was Hal, but Johnny wasn't even present for that session. Botnick's memories are always suspect, bless him, but he did a wonderful job finally get the remastered Forever Changes 50th release right!

So fine.

 

Just popped in to say, hey, I don't know much about the band or the album, but about 18 years ago I bought Forever Changes on a whim one day...

I regard it as one of the finest albums from the 60s that I own. A truly fantastic piece of work.

So if I love that album, where shall I go next? Normally I work these things out for myself, but I wondered what you bunch of wonderfully knowledgeable people might suggest...

Thanks.

 

Love 's debut from 1966 and Da Capo are musts...the trio of albums recorded by the original core lineup, mostly. Michael was brought in for Da Capo and Forever Changes, replacing Snoopy on drums.

Wonderful and timeless music from my favorite 60's band. Very different in approach musically for each album, but so great.



As a seven piece band for one album:



And this wonderful final Elektra release with a newly fired and hired band by Arthur Lee & Love...'Four Sail'

 

You should give Black Beauty a try. It’s a Love without any psych influence, but it’s a wonderful collection of songs and it certainly deserves the attention it never got (as you may know it remained unreleased until 2012).

 

Hi @Brand_New_Friend, this is my first visit to this thread in over 4 months. I did play the DVD through Pro Logic II on my AV receiver and it does have an authentic faux 5:1 playback which I have since used on other SACDs I own. It sounded great even though I'm only set up for 5:1.

I'm a little 'old fashioned?' When it comes to downloads, I prefer physical product to 'fresh air'. I have no doubt of the sonic qualities but each to their own. One day I may have to resort to Hi-Rez downloads because of storage issues, I am set up to play 'fresh air' but until that day...

That's a great word to use @tedhead, cinematic. It really does sound great. Lucky you winning the box set but I can't complain I won Kraftwerk's live vinyl box set right here on this forum!

I can assure you @Leaman that I do absolutely love the box set, as @lemonade kid has extolled on this thread many times it is 'the dog's b@ll@cks'*! I remember the day it arrived and although I had been familiar** with the album for over 50years and most of the extras for 20 years, I was actually excited opening the bloody thing up! Yes that's right, excited, an old gizzard like me! I wasn't let down in any way! I have the MFSL 2x45rpm LP & SACD, to my ears these are the best sounding versions of the greatest album of all time. Botnick's vinyl remaster comes close, very close but the DVD is superb on par with the MFSL releases.

*My words not Scott's.

**Forever Changes is my most played album ever, it probably accounts for 10% of my life's listening.

 

It's been 6 months since the release of the 50th Anniversary Edition of Forever Changes! Are you still loving it?
For a comprehensive list of the online reviews, click here.

 

Even More.

 

More thoughts on Forever Changes and more, kindly shared with me yesterday from Michael...

Hi Scott,

Yes, Johnny and I have an ongoing but good-natured disagreement about who played drums on FC (besides me, I mean.)

Bottom line, people will believe what they want to believe. That's the way it's always been. It's well-known that Jim Gordon routinely played sessions where Hal had been double booked, so I guess Hal Blaine could have snuck in the back door between Daily Planet and Andmoreagain, announced he was able to make it after all, and played drums on their version of Andmoragain, because I wasn't there for that.. I only know Jim Gordon played on Daily Planet because I talked with him before the session about his drums (he played Camco) and I watched him record the cut from the control booth; but I left after Daily Planet. Too painful to watch. Besides, anybody who knows anything about drumming can listen to Daily Planet and Rikki Don't Lose That Number (or any of the other recordings that Jim did with Eric Clapton, or John Lennon or George Harrison, etc) and tell it's the same guy. His style was unique...sophisticated and imaginative. Unlike Hal Blaine's, which in my opinion was pretty much just plain vanilla.

As a fellow drummer you'll appreciate this... did you know that in high school, Jim Gordon was a cheerleader? That's according to a buddy of his that maintains a website devoted to him.

By the way, I made a mistake on our re-recording of "Andmoreagain" actually...one you can hear, and one that no experienced studio drummer would ever have made. I over-modulated the section immediately preceding the bridge...the part that goes, "And I'm, trapped in confusion ..." On "And I'm..." I played too loud for what Botnick had the volume limitations set and it distorted. When we listened to the playback in the booth I noticed it right away and I hoped we would do a retake, but everybody else liked that take so it didn't happen. I cringe every time I hear it, which isn't often.

The accuracy of liner notes?...The liner notes on the back of Da Capo say I played drums on every cut, including 7&7 Is, not Snoopy. And the liner notes on FC don't mention me having sung equal three-part harmony (along with Arthur and Bryan) on Alone Again Or, or my back-up vocal contributions on "The Red Telephone", as well as other shorter vocal contributions I made on other cuts. Liner notes aren't sacrosanct. They're just what somebody remembers or what somebody wrote down.
Hal Blaine is a big name who gives a lot of respect and credibility to any record he's on. He's number one.

Too bad about Marty Balin. Hard to imagine him gone. He was such a force. I'll always remember him singing It's No Secret at The Fillmore with the early Jefferson Airplane. What a voice. Another music legend's passing that I read about in today's paper was of the wonderful engineer on several of The Beatle's albums, including St. Pepper and Revolver, Geoff Emerick. Amazingly, he engineered those albums when he was only in his early twenties.

Well later buddy,
Michael

 

I just learned that Bryan McLean, then aged 3 (three), had been hailed by Frederick Loewe as a "melodic genius".
r-e-s-p-e-c-t

 

Well, late to the 50th release but my copy arrived today (had put it off and off as I have the MFSL 45s and an earlyish US copy).
The set is beautifully put together! Love (eh, what can ya do?) the poster inside, the booklet, the sturdy tactile cover & the whole construction....quality package!
Very nice sense of ownership

And on top of that, there's still the audio to go through - hoping the mono is a dedicated mix...
Must dig out my Laughing Stock/ Your Mind 7" too. Time for a Love Party.

Very happy bunny here!

 

I just got the set recently too. I'm thrilled, since this is one of my favourite albums of all-time. It looks great, I just wished there was a hardcover book instead of a brief booklet, but I guess that would have made it more expensive. I'm also a little worried that the white cloth might become dirty with time.

I have just listened to the DVD, which sounds great. I have to try listening it in faux 5.1, as you guys suggest.

By the way, I'm enjoying reading you guys in this thread. Keep it on!

 

all these guys, but Love was Arthur Lee.

 

All that stuff, but all I want is the vinyl.

 

I have to disagree. While Lee was the undisputed band leader and de-facto-producer, Bryan MacLean was at least as talented as a songwriter, and Lee's writing style on Forever Changes is clearly influenced by him.