Luke's (early) My Generation Review

I haven't been able to get the actual CD yet, but thanks to Brian Cady, I've been able to hear 30 second clips of all the songs on the upcoming Deluxe Edition (except the instrumental version of My Generation, which is missing). You can too, here:

http://www.thewho.net/linernotes/MyGeneration.htm

Obviously these notes will be added to once I can hear the CDs themselves and hear the complete songs, but here are some comments for starters:

Out In The Street
A very good stereo mix, IMO, considering what it is. Vocals and backing (drums/bass/piano) center, guitar hard left. I would have liked the backing mixed to the right a bit, but at least this isn't tampered with, and the sound quality itself is quite good.

I Don't Mind
Hmm. Some strange things happening here. The guitar is mostly left, but there's some strange echo or doubling that makes its positioning in the mix indistinct. Backing center. The vocals are mixed strangely as well. There are some backing vocals that seem to come from the guitar track. The lead vocals are mixed more or less center, but with some strange effect of some sort. A very "messy" stereo mix.

The Good's Gone
Again, backing center. Guitar more or less to the left, with some echo or doubling ala I Don't Mind. At least the vocals are dead center, though.

La La La Lies
Backing and vocals center. Again, guitar left with some strange echo.

Much Too Much
Vocals center, but the rest is a MESS. All of the instruments have a strange doubled/out of phase quality to them. If the vocals weren't dead center I'd think this was fake stereo.

My Generation
Finally, another pretty good mix. Backing and vocals center, guitar hard left. No additional processing that I can hear.

While you can't hear it on the clip, Pete's guitar fills in the bass solo section are not on the stereo mix.

The Kids Are Alright
Guitar more or less to the left, backing and vocals more or less centered. However, everything sounds like it has some stereo reverb added to it, so nothing is very distinct in the stereo picture, especially the guitar.

Please Please Please
Backing, lead vocal, and guitar dead center. The only thing in stereo seems to be some backing vocals, although they are not very distinct left or right.

It's Not True
Essentially mono, although everything isn't dead center - there's a lot of stereo reverb going on. The vocals are pretty "dead on", but everything else has a "stereo" feel to it.

I'm A Man
One of the better stereo mixes on the set. Vocals and backing center, guitar left. Nothing "strange" going on as far as I can hear.

A Legal Matter
Backing and vocals center, guitar to the left with some heavy echo/reverb/doubling.

The Ox
Essentially guitar left and backing center, but again, there's a lot of stereo "spread" on both tracks, so both have somewhat indistinct stereo positioning.

Circles
Essentially mono. More stereo "spread" going on No french horn, either.

I Can't Explain
Backing and guitar dead center, vocals split hard left and right. I'll have to do some more checking, but it *seems* as if there are indeed two real vocal tracks, and they simply didn't split one. Similar to the stereo A Quick One mixes.

Bald Headed Woman
What's on the clip is pretty much just mono. Not even much "spread".

Daddy Rolling Stone
Backing and vocals dead center, guitar hard left. Another mix not tampered with.

Leaving Here (alternate version)
Backing and vocals center, guitar left with some heavy doubling to the right. It is said this is an alternate take, but the clip sounds pretty similar to the Who's Missing take. I'll have to check it out.

Lubie
Backing and vocals dead center, guitar to the left. Another pretty "straight" mix.

Shout And Shimmy
Backing and vocals dead center, guitar pretty much split left and right in equal amounts.

Heatwave
Backing and vocals dead center, guitar hard left. Straight mix.

Motoring.
As with Heatwave.

Anytime You Want Me.
Kind of strange. Backing dead center, vocals left-center, and guitar pretty much hard left.

Anyway Anyhow Anywhere (alternate)
Guitar hard left (with a bit of echo), backing dead center, lead vocals dead center to start, split a bit later on, backing vocals split a bit. I'm guessing all the vocals were on the same track and they simply did some "creative" mixing (ie, since there was little overlap between lead and backing vocals, mix the lead bit dead center but split the track when it was just backing vocals). I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like based on the clip.

Instant Party
Not much happens in the 30 seconds of the clip, but what is in the clip is pretty much mono.

If the whole album was like the "straight" mixes (Out In The Street, My Generation, I'm A Man, *maybe* I Can't Explain), I'd be very happy. Now, yes, I'd prefer if the backing track was mixed to one side a bit, but I could still live with things if it was centered. HOWEVER, most of the mixes on the set are, IMO, garbage. A lot of processing to "create" tracks, etc. Did they not listen to Much Too Much while they were mixing it?

Fidelity-wise, things seem to sound fine, although I'll hold final judgement until I can hear the CDs themselves.

IMO, this could have been a *killer* release, but based on what I've heard, I'd say some of it is "very good", while the rest is "not terrible, but not very good."

How long till they remix it again, this time in a way that actually makes sense?

 

You'll be about 55 when that happens

 

The sensible thing to do would have been to create mono remixes, basically replicating the original mono mixes, only clearer and with more dynamic range. They could then have added stereo remixes as bonus tracks. Instead, we're stuck with a hodge podge of a few decent stereo tracks, a few godawful stereo tracks, and some tracks that for the most part sound as if they're in mono. And there's still plenty of wasted space on the two-disc set.

Perhaps this is the jolt the "stereo at all costs" crowd needs to make them realize that stereo isn't always better. And that once you give people license to tamper with history, there's no guarantee you'll be happy with the results.

 

Friends,

While I appreciate Luke's early review (good info), I plan on purchasing the CD and then judging for myself...the fun part for me!

Bob

 

Well, if you are going to remix, I don't see any reason to remix into mono *and* stereo. I could understand remastering the original mono mixes, and then adding the stereo mixes, but remixing into mono, then stereo, seems like a waste. Do a *good* stereo mix and be done with it.

 

I agree. On "My Generation" the least he could have done for us (since we've been waiting for years for true stereo), is put the backing track on the left, the vocals in the middle and the guitar on the right.

At least for this one track. Is that too much to ask? Instead we have a mono remix with one guitar coming out of the right channel? This makes no sense to me at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

At this point, that's the least of my issues with this set. For what they are, those "mono mixes with guitar on the left" sound pretty good. I have a MUCH larger problem with some of the "funny" mixing they did to the other songs. You know?

 

Well, Luke, I can give you two very good reasons to remix into both mono and stereo. First, because doing so allows you to provide the public with something that is pretty faithful to the original releases (which the new stereo mixes obviously are not) while also satisfying the public demand (however unwise it may be) for stereo mixes of three-track recordings which, in all likelihood, were never seriously intended to be released in stereo to begin with. Second, because there's room enough for both. My understanding that this deluxe reissue contains at most 100 minutes of music spread over two discs. Seems to me that they could have included mono remixes of all the previously released material on disc one and included stereo remixes (where acceptable stereo mixes were possible) and outtakes on disc two.

Of course it goes without saying that had the original full-track masters been available, it might have made sense to simply remaster those recordings instead of creating new mono remixes. But as far as I know, the original masters do not exist, and the second and third (or higher) generation tapes that do exist leave something to be desired sonics-wise. Hence the mono remixes.

 

I thought Talmy was in possession of the original three-track masters, and sold them to MCA.....

 

>>>>I'm pretty pissed. This "create a second guitar with doubling" stuff is awfull!! Just mix the tracks that are there and put the vocals in the middle.

If the stereo soundstage has to be narrowed to make these sound good, fine. I just DONT WANT this digital nonsense on these.

GEEZ!!!

PS...I hope the review mags trash this release because of this. These need to be REMIXED without this doubling nonsense.

 

Talmy was in possession of the original multitrack tapes. The original mono mixdown masters that were made from those multitracks in the mid 60's appear to have gone missing.

 

Well, I'm not sure how much more "faithful" to the originals mono remixes would be. Why would they be? Other than being in mono, they'd sound the same as the stereo versions. What's the point? You could just hit the mono button on your receiver. You'd still be missing those overdubs on My Generation and A Legal Matter.

I've never actually heard that the original mono mixes are gone for the first album. The
Canadian CD, while mastered a bit "cold", actually sounds very good source-tape wise, at least for most of the songs. Out In The Street sounds great on that disc.

While I don't see any problem in remastering the original mono mixes, creating new mono mixes to go along with the stereo ones is pretty pointless.

 

All of the songs run about 2% slow.

 

I haven't compared the pitches to other recordings (ie, live), but is it possible the original mix just ran fast?

 

I've always wondered about that. Has anyone (Astley or someone more reliable) ever actually claimed the mono master tape for this album is missing? Virgin certainly had a very good tape (if not the master tape) in the early 80s when they did their reissue.

 

Backing track hard left? No thanks.

 

???

I don't get 'cha.

This Who stuff has been in mono for 37 years.

The original producer has had the three channel tapes all this time and finally sells them to the Who and Universal for a great deal of money.

He remixes everything in "stereo" and it is the most anticipated remix in modern rock history.

But, "My Generation" and most of the songs have been remixed in MONO again with the exception of one guitar in the right channel????????

WHAT WAS THE BLEEDIN' POINT?

 

Please tell me your joking. Anyone who has ever listened to a true mono mix knows full well that it isn't the same thing as a collapsed stereo mix.

And it is a lot easier to make a new mono mix that is faithful to the original -- which is, after all, in MONO -- than it is to create a decent stereo mix that is faithful to the original. Indeed, in the case of a three-track recording that was produced with mono in mind, it's pretty darned hard to create a decent stereo mix at all.

And the "point" of creating a new mono mix is perfectly obvious -- to preserve the instrumental balance of the original mono mix without (1) the additional tape hiss and distortion that has been added to the production masters through several generations of duplication and (2) the limited dynamic range and frequency response dictated by the mid-60s music media (AM radio and the 45 single). Many people don't seem to understand that you don't have to resort to creating new gimmicky stereo mixes in order to get these benefits.

 

I agree that there is no aesthetic purpose to be served by creating crappy stereo mixes for songs that were not recorded with stereo in mind. But there IS a financial purpose. Universal (and Pete Townshend) no doubt thought they'd be able to sell a lot more copies of this disc if it had "first time in stereo" emblazened on the cover.

All I'm saying that if the best they could do is create crappy stereo mixes, they'd have been better off (from a music standpoint) creating new mono mixes. I'd take good mono mix over a bad stereo mix any day. At the very least they should have included both mono and stereo mixes. And personally I think it would be possible to create new mono mixes that are (except in the few instances where overdubs were done at the mixing stage) that are faithful to the original mixes but sound MUCH better (less hiss, more dynamic range, wider frequency response).

 

Well, the point is that crappy stereo mixes are not "the best they could do". They could have created good stereo mixes. It's not like there's something wrong with the tapes that precludes them from being mixed into non-gimmicky, true stereo mixes similar to those that appear on the Missing albums.

 

If the mono and stereo are mixed the same, yeah, they are the same. Only difference is the stuff in the center (of the stereo mix) will be ever so slightly louder when played in mono (+3 dB).

It's pretty *easy*, actually. You mix one track left, one center, and one right. If need be, move the left and/or right tracks a little bit to the middle to "tighten" things up. Recreate the original echo. Get a good balance and go.

What's "gimmicky" about a straight 3-track stereo mix?

Again, if you are going to release a mono mix, release the original one. It is pretty dumb to remix to mono, espeically when some elements of the original mono mix are not there on the multitracks.

 

quote:
Originally posted by dolstein
Please tell me your joking. Anyone who has ever listened to a true mono mix knows full well that it isn't the same thing as a collapsed stereo mix.

Luke:
If the mono and stereo are mixed the same, yeah, they are the same. Only difference is the stuff in the center (of the stereo mix) will be ever so slightly louder when played in mono (+3 dB).

Nothing will get louder at all.

Anything that was in either left only, or right only, will get lower - and 3dB is anything but "ever so slight."

 

Luke: "If the mono and stereo are mixed the same, yeah, they are the same."

One more thing: simple logic dictates that if a mono mix and a stereo mix are both 'mixed the same', then they would be two identical mono mixes.

 

If you don't believe me, play a stereo recording, and flip the switch to "mono" on your receiver. Anything that's in the middle will get 3 dB louder. Now, maybe you think that makes a huge difference, but I think for most people the difference is negligible.

 

Is that an attempt at humor?

Obviously, what I was talking about is if one mix (the stereo) has the tracks panned around, while the other (mono) has the tracks all mixed to the center, with everything else being equal.