Macca's 1987 Phil Ramone album - thoughts, opinions?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by warewolf95, Jul 31, 2015.

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  1. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    As the title says. In 1987, Macca recorded an album with Phil Ramone before deciding to scrap it.

    Here is my personal tracklisting for it (includes everything, just my personal order):

    1. Return to Pepperland
    2. Atlantic Ocean (original "sung" vocals version)
    3. Christian Pop
    4. Love Mix (the post-production version)
    5. Back On My Feet
    6. Squid (recorded before these sessions, but might as well fit with them.....)
    7. Once Upon a Long Ago
    8. Peacocks
    9. P.S. Love Me Do
    10. This One
    11. Loveliest Thing
    12. Big Day
    13. Love Comes Tumbling Down
    14. Beautiful Night (long version, not the edited b-side)
    15. Love Mix (original "non produced" mix)

    I'd like to get a conversation going about this as it's quite an interesting piece to me. On the one hand, there are tracks on it that I think are great and others that are best left forgotten.

    In a nutshell, I think this "album" is far better than it's given credit for and overall is probably better than Press To Play.

    It's got some pretty creative stuff going musically in a lot of spots and is very interesting.

    I've been listening to this album a lot lately and there are a few really standout cuts, imo. Disregarding the obvious demos like Peacocks and Big Day, etc., I really think this album is stronger than Press to Play and a lot more fun.

    The track Return to Pepperland being slightly deft, lyrically, is really quite a tour-de-force! There's all kinds of awesome little "bits" and pieces in this production of a song. It really reminds me of Yellow Submarine or the actual Sgt. Pepper track.

    Atlantic Ocean (NOT the 1997 b-side version with a boring vocal) is really cool and interesting - there's not another track like this by Macca. The music really helps visualize the lyrics in the best of ways. It may be a tad overlong, but it's forgivable seeing as we have Martin freakin' Barre throwing us some tasty licks here and there. :)

    Christian Pop - a demo, probably not meant to actually become a song, is still REALLY cool, imo, as we have it. Yes, it became a part of the Liverpool Oratorio down the line, but even just the piece we have here is a really cool piece of music. I love this little ditty.

    Back On My Feet. What's to say? This is one of the best Macca songs from this period, imo, and deserving of far more than it's eventual b-side status.

    Squid. A pointless little acoustic and keyboard ditty. It may be pointless, but it's still really fun and interesting to listen to. Very summery. I love this track. :)

    Once Upon a Long Ago - the peak of Macca's nonsense lyrics. Other than that, it's a great forgotten gem of his, imo. Awesome guitar and violin. Shame it was relegated to "compilation bonus track" status. :(

    Peacocks and Big Day - not worth discussing. Just simple demos.

    Loveliest Thing - Sappy Macca at his finest.

    Love Comes Tumbling Down - Sappy Macca at his worst.

    Beautiful Night - I'm always surprised this never got released some way back in the day, considering I think it's every bit as good as the final version, just different. Great track. Anyone that hates Beautiful Night simply isn't a Macca fan :)

    Love Mix - There are two versions. The "produced" b-side version and the "rough mix" version. Both are worth hearing as they are very different. I love this song. It's a simple little fun Macca pop tune. Underrated, imo

    P.S. Love Me Do - yuck. The less said the better. Why did he play this live?! :(

    This One - I count this as "demo" alongside the likes of Christian Pop, Big Day, etc. It's cool to hear an alternate version to the one we know and love on FITD, but this is just none too good, imo. Glad it got to sit and cook for a bit....

    So yea, that basically sums up my thoughts on the album many have dubbed as "Return to Pepperland", aka the Phil Ramone 1987 Album.

    Thoughts? Opinions?

    :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
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  2. etcetera

    etcetera Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maccaland
    The original title for once upon a long ago was MY OWN LIFE STORY, and probably with other more personal lyrics
     
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  3. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    You forgot "PS Love Me Do"!
     
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  4. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    That is very interesting. I would love to know what the original lyrics may have been.
     
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  5. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Shhh! :)
     
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  6. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    The things you learn. I never knew that either.
     
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  7. Rigsby

    Rigsby Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I've structured mine as per the below in my iTunes, I agree it's not a bad listen with one or two exceptions, but I don't think there's enough there for a decent whole album if I'm honest.

    Once Upon A Long Ago
    Love Come Tumbling Down
    Return To Pepperland
    Atlantic Ocean
    Back On My Feet
    P.S. Love Me Do
    Loveliest Thing
    Squid
    Love Mix
    Big Day
    Christian Pop
    Beautiful Night
    Peacocks
    Once Upon A Long Ago [Extended Mix 11/87]
    I Saw Her Standing There [Live - From "Prince's Trust 10th Anniversary"]
    Long Tall Sally [Live - From "Prince's Trust 10th Anniversary"]
    Get Back [Live - From "Prince's Trust 10th Anniversary"]
     
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  8. Rojo

    Rojo Forum Resident

    Personal opinion. I haven't heard all the tracks you mentioned but I did hear roughly half of them.

    With that sample, I'd say that McCartney did release the best songs on that single (Once upon.../Back on my feet) and probably did well in scrapping the album.

    Back on my feet is fabulous. It's a real pity it got lost as a B-side but still not great enough to drive a whole record on its own.
     
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  9. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Personally, I think he could've worked it into a good album. A lot of the tracks really show potential to be great, imo.

    Once Upon a Long Ago
    Back On My Feet
    Return to Pepperland
    Atlantic Ocean
    Loveliest Thing
    Squid
    Love Come Tumbling Down
    Love Mix
    Beautiful Night

    That's nine songs right there that at least showed potential (if they weren't really good already)

    Anyone know why he decided just to scrap the sessions? I mean, really, compare those nine songs to the majority of Pipes Of Peace and you can't tell me Pipes is a much better album...

    :)
     
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  10. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    I like PS Love Me Do a lot. It was great to hear him actually take chances and rearrange Beatles numbers. He must get so sick of playing the same lyrics, same tempos, etc night after night. Of course, I guess I'd have issues with him doing Hey Jude as a samba, so I guess I don't feel both songs are sacred ground to me.
     
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  11. etcetera

    etcetera Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maccaland
    Not produced by Phil, but from late 1986, all the stuff made with Richard Niles as arranger : a lot of cold cuts embellishments ( we have already blue sway ), Richard said he made great work on robber's ball with his group godzilla, your school and the best of the best , the 2 versions of the jack lawrence tune " LINDA " for linda's 45th birthday . And there is the unreleased duet with Peter Gabriel from late 1986, politics of love ...... and all the other stuff we don't know : an enormous archive treasure to discover i hope one day
     
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  12. Rigsby

    Rigsby Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    It feels a bit like another Pipes of Peace - a potentially strong front end that tails off with a big finish (Beautiful Night/Through Our Love). I'm not sure, you may be right, I personally think Squid is one of his most beautiful melodies but it's a killer B-side rather than a viable album track in my view. Hmmm, in two minds...I'll give it another listen...!
     
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  13. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    You make good points. Yea, I'm not saying all the material is/was top rate, but a lot of it showed the potential to maybe be worked into something really good. The basis of some strong tracks are there. :)
     
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  14. No Bull

    No Bull Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    a real low point. even including Wild Life.... Press to Play... Pipes of Peace....
     
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  15. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I have no problem with an artist taking chances and wanting to do something different. But Macca had nothing to do with the music of PS Love Me Do aside from his vocal (as far as I know) and the end result just really isn't very good, imo . :)

    But hey, if you enjoy it, more power to ya'!
     
  16. Rigsby

    Rigsby Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Yeah I'd agree with that, I mean it's clear that his muse hasn't deserted him - which is kind of the received wisdom on that period, it's just equally clear that he didn't know what direction to point it in!
     
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  17. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I really thought so as well until recently.

    I've heard this material for years and agreed with the general consensus that it wasn't that good. But then I started listening to it more recently and for whatever reason my opinion has almost completely switched.

    Any particular reasons you think it's a low point?
     
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  18. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Ah, there ya' go. That's probably the best one can put it in regards to this period. At least the drums are more tolerable than PTP! :)
     
  19. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I personally agree with you, and think that many of these songs were good enough to be released. I started a thread about it last year that you may enjoy reading:

    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/paul-mccartney-return-to-pepperland.364070/
     
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  20. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
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  21. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I think shelving the album ended up being one of the most critical decisions he would make in his career. While the Ramone tracks are melodically pleasant, they have no edge at all - they might have sounded good spread out over a number of albums, but listened to as a whole, it comes across as a polished "adult contemporary" album. A little more bite than Peter Cetera, but maybe not quite as much energy as Billy Joel. I think he could have taken two paths in 1987.

    One would have been to explore contemporary music and embrace those trends - dance/pop like Hall & Oates, big ballads, and soundtrack song here and there, accompanied by the best professional studio musicians, and lushly produced by guys like Phil Ramone.

    The other road would be to embrace his rock and roll roots with an album of oldies, write some songs with Elvis Costello, put together a proper rock band, take that band into the studio and record an album that he'd be comfortable touring behind and that would reestablish his credibility with both critics and fans; then, strap on the Hofner bass and get back on the road for the first time in a decade.

    So, so glad he chose option no. 2.
     
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  22. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Either option could've been great if done right, but yea, I'm so thankful we got Flowers and the tour instead. :)

    Any love for his 1989-1993 band? Aside from Christ Witten and Robbie McIntosh swapping roles, I thought they were a perfect unit. Lots of character, imo, between the various members.

    I love his current lineup, but his 1989-93 band were more than faceless backing musicians, ya know? Especially later on by the time of Unplugged and OTG, they really started to almsot seem like a band, ala Wings.

    I've always thought it a shame that lineup didn't get to do more with Paul than it did.
     
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  23. No Bull

    No Bull Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Just the song quality/lyrics. I think Paul was a bit lost at this point. I think he need Elvis to kick in the rear... Flowers in the Dirt resurected him to me.
     
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  24. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Still a damn shame the McManus/Macca collaboration never came to fruition. They were quarreling over production issues, as far as I know, so in hindsight that seems like such a dumb thing, haha.

    Just imagine.... :)
     
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  25. murrow1971

    murrow1971 Forum Resident

    Location:
    massachusetts
    If I remember correctly, Elvis wanted to make an edgier record (ala Brutal Youth) but Paul wanted a glossy clean production. I think the production of Flowers' suffers because of it. It is not like it burned up the charts, so playing it safe did not yield any gains. Perhaps there best collaboration was "Tommy's Coming Home". I would have welcomed that on any McCartney album.
     
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