MAD MEN -- Season FIVE Official Thread....

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Chip TRG, Mar 15, 2012.

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  1. carrick doone

    carrick doone Whhhuuuutttt????

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Good points Driver. Never saw the parallels to the previous story. Makes sense in terms of stroytelling.

    I always recall the line by Weiner about his plots that they are literary as if reading a book.
     
  2. misterdecibel

    misterdecibel Bulbous Also Tapered

    Also I don't recall seeing any Christmas decorations.
     
  3. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    It was the same moment in time. The first time it was shown, Don thought he had caught Joan showering before her "date," the second time it was shown, we get more information - we go into Joan's room when Joan's mom knocks on the door to let Joan know that Don is there, and see Joan taking off the necklace that her date gave her and putting on her bathrobe over the dress she wore on the date - she's already been on the date - Don was too late, although he doesn't know that until the next day when he sees Joan in the partners' meeting, and we don't know that until we see the scene the second time.
     
  4. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Location:
    Aloha, OR
  5. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    Or, as we discussed last week, you can look at from the perspective that the Krishnas and their "Eastern enlightenment" aren't much different from the 50s Western business culture to which they were supposed to provide an alternative: Paul finds himself trapped in the same rat race of selling the organization in both SCDP and the Krishnas, Paul and Peggy both face a tremendous internal struggle to walk away from their "cult leader" who takes them for granted, Lakshmi and Joan both prostitute themselves to advance the goals of their organization, etc.
     
  6. Poor Napoleon

    Poor Napoleon Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    When Peggy gives two week's notice, she says her last day will be the 3rd. So that scene should take place January 20, 1967.
     
  7. carrick doone

    carrick doone Whhhuuuutttt????

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Off topic but not really - do you know, that when you want to break up with someone, the 3 - 4 weeks after New Years is considered one of the best times to do so? It avoids "messiness" and expectations going into February.

    I'm sure this is coincidental for the show.
     
  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I'm just glad there was an elevator there! I instantly thought, "oh, no!!!"

    Great, great episode. And you know, the ad slogan was perfect, too. Jon Hamm doing that presentation actually made me wanna go out and buy a Jaguar.

    What a show.

    I agree. One can only hope there'll be some additional twists where she winds up coming back, probably with a bigger title and a lot more money.

    BTW: a $19,000 salary in 1966 would be worth over $125,000 today, so that's not a bad deal for her.
     
  9. Hard Panner

    Hard Panner Baroque Popsike & Fuzz

    I don't think the use of The Kinks "You Really Got Me" at the end of this week's episode was mentioned by anybody, yet. Any thoughts? Do you think it fit the scene/episode? I don't think it did anything for that last scene at all - am I missing something? Think something closer to the time frame of the episode would have been a better. How about "House In The Country"?
     
  10. Paul G

    Paul G Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Hmm, parts of the song might apply to various characters --

    "He's got a house in the country . . . but he ain't got a home" -- Pete Campbell
    "And a big sports car" -- Don Draper, if he kept the Jaguar
    "Well he got his job when drunken daddy tumbled down the stairs" -- Roger Sterling, who did get his job because of daddy, but not clear whether it's because his father had an accident because of alcoholism
     
  11. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    I think the effect they were going for was a triumphant, upbeat song after the sadness of Peggy saying goodbye to Don? Like, look out world, here comes Peggy Olsen.

    But I think that the "Girl / You really got me now / You got me so I don't know what I'm doin'" ties into Mr. Jaguar's demand to sleep with Joan: the big theme of the episode was the way that men want women, and the price that gets negotiated between men and women over that desire. The biggest cliché about advertising is "sex sells," and we saw that metaphorically in Don's pitch to Jaguar, and literally in the transaction between Joan and Mr. Jaguar, and also in the subplot where Megan goes on her audition, only to be leered at by the producers of the play instead of judged on her acting ability.
     
  12. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    I hope not. As I said above, one of the things I admire about this show is that it will actually make real changes like having Don and Betty divorce, or, now, have Peggy leave the agency, instead of just recycling the same characters and situations over and over again until the show gets cancelled, like 95% of other TV shows do. Peggy has already threatened to jump ship before. Don has been taking her for granted and treating her like **** all season. This week she had to fight on the conference call to be introduced as Ginsberg's supervisor. Then she comes up with a Don-worthy ad lib on the conference call to save the account, goes into Don's office, and he mocks her success, throws money in her face, and humiliates her in front of her co-workers. Right before she gives Don her notice, Don assumes that she wants to be put on the Jaguar account, and tells her that "We can't put a girl on the Jaguar account." What was she supposed to do?

    From Elisabeth Moss's comments during this week's Inside Mad Men behind-the-scenes featurette on AMC's web site:

    Then, on the final scene where she gives her notice to Don:

    I don't think Peggy will be coming back. I hope she doesn't come back. For her to come back wouldn't ring true. Maybe they will set up a parallel storyline at her new agency? Maybe Ken, and even others, will follow her to her new agency? I could see that happening, but I just don't see her coming back to work for Don again.
     
  13. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    Write Her OfF!!

    <<<What?

    Sure they can, and I think they probably will. What plot line was left for her at their firm? Sh'e already has tons of plot lines written for her. Her time is past.

    I dont see HOW they could devote any more time to her working in another firm. Maybe she'll have drinks occasionally with her old staff, and it will be a quick 2 minute scene but thats it.

    Remember Sal? He was a big part of many episodes, and he's gonzo...they dont even mention him now.

    My thought is that we HAVE seen the last of Peggy.
     
  14. Marty Milton

    Marty Milton Senior Member

    Location:
    Urbana, Illinois
    I had no problem at all with the choice of the song at the end of the episode. That beginning guitar riff was great.
     
  15. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    I was browsing Mad Men articles on the web last night, and came across this article, which is written by gay ad exec from the 60s, and is largely centered around a critique of the show's portrayal of now-axed gay character Sal, but also contains this passage that is pretty relevant to what happened to Peggy last night:

    So I think that Peggy leaving the agency for a better opportunity and more money after Don had humiliated her one time too many is actually pretty realistic in that that's what people in this business in the 1960s actually did. Other TV shows might have strung out the pact between Ken and Peggy to jump ship to another agency forever, and never actually followed through on anyone leaving, because that's the way that most TV shows work. But, as much as I would hate to see Peggy vanish from the show and only guest star in one episode two years from now, the way that Paul Kinsey did this season, I do admire the show for having the guts to actually make a logical, realistic change to the dynamic of the show like this and write a popular character off in the service of the larger story.
     
  16. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    Driver: All true, and when you jumped to a rival agency, you "died" as far as youre old firm was concerned.
    Don has written her off 100%....you knew that with his "no Need To Stay until the 3rd Comment". Peggy is the enemy now, so I think they have reached the end of the Peggy character's value to the show.

    The fact that they made Ginsberg the guy who came up with the slogan that won over Jaguar seems to me, a set up for future plots. I think that Ginsburg will be very active in next seasons run. He's the new Peggy, in essence.
     
  17. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    I don't think that Peggy is the enemy to Don personally, as evidenced by his holding and kissing her hand after he realized that (1) she was actually leaving, and (2) this time he couldn't just turn on the charm and bull**** her into staying, but, yeah, I agree, his "No need to stay until the 3rd - I've got lots of freelancers out there" comment is the stance that he has no choice but to take publicly.

    Yes, it's hard not to reach that conclusion now. Although I think Don already has a much testier relationship with Ginsberg than he ever had with Peggy, and Ginsberg is much less in awe of Don than Peggy was for years, and still is, even though she finally quit, so it will be interesting to see where the relationship between Don and Ginsberg goes.
     
  18. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    I agree, BUT I think the fact the Ginsberg ISNT in awe of Don, and can think on his own will be one of the reasons why he'll be the next star in the agency. Ginzie's just "has it", the same way Don "has it". And I think Don will warm up to him as he starts making clients happy...he'll be putting money in Dons pocket. Nothing makes a partner happier than that.
     
  19. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Senior Member

    Peggy has it, too, as she demonstrated last night, when she winged it and saved the Chevalier Blanc account over speakerphone. There have already been plenty of suggestions already of tension between Don and Ginsberg - and I think there will be more to come.
     
  20. tommy-thewho

    tommy-thewho Senior Member

    Location:
    detroit, mi
    The best episode this season for me...

    Sad to see Peggy leave. If they show her again it won't be the same.

    Never thought Joan would go thru with it. Poor Don is losing all his support women... Loved his kissing Peggy's hand trying to hold onto her..
     
  21. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    NYC
    Agreed....I never thought Joan would either.
     
  22. hyde park

    hyde park Forum Resident

    Location:
    IL, USA
    I think Don was genuinely looking out for Peg here - see Joan and Fred's comment about car "guys" - not saying that Peggy couldn't hold her own with them, though. That being all said - Don has been treating her like crap all season and I am glad she booked to a new agency.
     
  23. hyde park

    hyde park Forum Resident

    Location:
    IL, USA
    I think it is true to her character, though she definitely has evolved throughout the series. Would you have said the same thing of her in Season 1?
     
  24. Marty Milton

    Marty Milton Senior Member

    Location:
    Urbana, Illinois
    I definitely admire Peggy for sticking to her principles by leaving rather than using a job offer as leverage for a raise at her current place of employment. I'm hoping we will still see her since she has been in the series since the beginning. What I hope we don't see is Peggy regreting her career move and coming back to Don begging for her old job.
     
  25. Sully

    Sully Forum Resident

    Location:
    Verona, NJ USA
    I imagine Peggy won't go too far, Elizabeth Moss has 2nd billing on the show.
     
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