Magical Mystery Tour + Let It Be DVD Releases - Thanksgiving 2K12

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by krlpuretone, Jul 26, 2012.

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  1. Gotcha. So, if it was reversal, then they basically edited the original raw stock and that's what was transferred for the blu-ray?
     
  2. HELP! started as 35mm film under more controlled shooting conditions. That's gonna make a difference no matter the restoration.
     
  3. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Does the size of the film make any difference as far as lifespan and/or fade resistance? Is 35mm Kodachrome going to last longer than 16mm Kodachrome?
    I don't know.

    And how controlled could the shooting conditions have been on a mountainside in snow, on sand, on boats, etc? :D
     
  4. Shawn

    Shawn Forum Resident

    It could be that the colors on the VHS tape aren't accurate / are artificially 'pumped'. Or that your VHS machine - and the way it's connected to your monitor vs. your DVD player reproduces color differently.

    Not saying this is the case, but it's another variable that makes comparisons between different formats challenging.
     
  5. No, not necessarily. I was just saying that 35mm is gonna look better than 16mm in general.
     
  6. On the end credits on MMT blu-ray, they mention "continuity for 35mm blow-up" and an optical blow-up as well as photochemical restoration of the 16mm elements. So, I'm still not 100% sure what the lineage of film and video for the blu-ray is. There are opticals in the film, so maybe they were done at 35mm? I dunno.
     
  7. empirelvr

    empirelvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Yes, *IF* the film elements were taken care of since the day it was shot. It's been my understanding that the final MMT assembly footage was not stored properly for at least 10 years prior to it being transferred to proper stortage facilities. This has a significant influence on how well the film elements hold up over the years.

    You can't compare the two. "Help" was a professional production filmed in 35mm and it's negative maintained in a true film vault for all this time. "MMT" was a semi-pro at best 16mm production, shot on color reversal film. It also wasn't well kept for a considerable number of years AFAIK. Even if both films' elements were in similar conditions, the fact "Help" is in 35mm and professionally shot is enough to ensure it would look better.

    Film (and audio tape deterioration) isn't a linear phenomenon. The particular film stock used and batch of it, how the film was shot, how it was processed and washed afterwards, and it's storage conditions over the years plays a significant role in how well it holds up.

    The maddning part is, since it's not a linear thing, a given film can be fine one day, then the next week go downhill in a rapid fashion. It is quite possible that the 1988 restoration was done "just in time" and the condition of the same elements 25 years later are worse than imagined.

    Not saying that is the case, just that when dealing with media like this, it's difficult to make such cut and dried assumptions. Too many variables involved going right back to the manufacture of the film stock used.
     
  8. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    And it still looked pretty bad in the 90s MPI DVD. That's why it needed the extensive restoration that it received. My point being, MMT could have looked better too if they had worked as hard on it. Not the equal of the restored Help!, just better than it does now.
     
  9. Laservampire

    Laservampire (╯°□°)╯︵ ןıo ǝʞɐus

    The reason everything looks so crappy isn't because of deterioration of the elements, it's the fact they've digitally scrubbed every last bit of film grain from them!

    The stills from the new restoration of "Manos: The Hands Of Fate" look better than MMT!
     
  10. Depends on the condition of the negative, film stock comes into play as well. There's only so much you can do depending on the condition of the film.
     
  11. mne563

    mne563 Forum Resident

    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    This post explains a lot, right from Ron Furmanek:

    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=1267986&postcount=39
     
  12. dewey02

    dewey02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Far North
    Ron and Vidiot have been curiously quiet since the release of MMT blu ray......
     
  13. Maidenpriest

    Maidenpriest Cowboys are the only ones who stay in tune anyway!

    Location:
    Europe
    This needs to be re-posted in full :)


    I received a PM from Ron Furmanek, asking me to post this to set the record straight....so here it is!


    Hello to Steve & the gang!,..I was just made aware of the thread regarding MMT & asked your friend & mine,.Mr. Evan to please post this for me!,..(sorry for any typo's!)

    I restored the entire visual & audio for the entire film in 1988. It was shot on 16 mm Ektachrome film stock originally in 1967,..(the mention of 35 mm at the beginning of the original MPI release is a MISTAKE!,.it should have said 16mm,.they got the film lab's name wrong also!!),..The elements were missing!,.After two weeks I located the original A&B negative rolls intact & in mint condition giding in a film lab in London,..they were "lost" there since the early 70's!

    The entire film was transferred on at the time state-of-the-art rank telecine equipment,..both A&B rolls seperately,&,each scene color corrected!,..its perfect!,..crystal clear & sharp,.professionally filmed!,..the only problem I had was some printed-in dirt during some of the "opticals",..this was done in 1967 originally,&,because I couldn't find the overlays for this transfer,.I couldn't "re-do" the opticals to remove the dirt,..very minimal I might add!

    The entire audio track was re-transfered from the original mag tracks,.."tracks" I say here,..there were as many as a dozen rolls of 16 mm mag that had to be locked in sync for the duration of the 3 reels,..sometimes a roll would contain only ten seconds of audio,&,the rest was blank,.but,.needless to say I went the extra mile to resync everything,.with the tedious task of having to re-splice 90% of the 16 mm mag splices from 1967,.which actually was falling apart during the winding of the rolls!

    I'm always surprised that no one ever notices that the entire films audio is in stereo?,.I mean,.there are sounds & sound effects coming out all over the place!!,..again,.I could have used the mixed mono master mag,.would have taken an hour to transfer,.but,.no,.I spent probably 100 hours!

    The 3 remixed songs are another matter entirely,..George is credited as remixing them,(so he wouldn't get hurt).but,.guess who really did?,..it was my idea to sync up the different 4 track stage tapes to create 8 or more tracks to mix with,.providing for a much better stereo spread & image,..(ya really gotta admit,.the 3 songs I remixed kinda stink in stereo on vinyl & CD!)..George & crew at Abbey Road thought it was a crazy thing to do,..but,.we pulled it off,.all by hand,.no digital computer action then!,..We cued up Blue Jay Way,.his exact words to me were,."this is rubbish!,.did we release this!?",.so folks,..there ya go,..a short version of the whole story.

    I know the original VHS & Lasers were fine,.what the heck happened with the DVD is anyone's guess!,..do yourselves a favor & track down the VHS,or,Laser on MPI,..put on headphones & enjoy! The current DVD's found is stores ARE bootlegs,..off the MPI probably.

    For those who do not know,.anything that looks super clean in Anthology,."(Let It Be,.Shea,.Washington,Promo Films,.etc,.etc),.Its My work there,.picture & audio,..ask Mr. Hoffman,.he told me that if he were ever to remix Beatles,.he would do it exactly like I did!

    enjoy!

    Ron F
     
  14. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Very curious indeed. Maybe they have been mesmerized by Nat's Dream and Shirley's Wild Accordion? :)
     
  15. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Ron Furmenek, quoting George Martin:

    "We cued up Blue Jay Way,.his (GM's) exact words to me were,."this is rubbish!,.did we release this!?"

    I can see that this song may not be Mr. Martin's cup of tea (AND biscuits!!!), but it amazes me how much he seems to forget things. Apparently, he couldn't even remember remixing Help! and Rubber Soul in 1987. Doesn't he have The Beatles records?
     
  16. Drifter

    Drifter AD survivor

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, CA
    Well he is almost 87 years old, for goodness' sake! :)

    Why would he have The Beatles records?
     
  17. ynnek4

    ynnek4 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida
    Sorry, I think that is hilarious. :laugh:
     
  18. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    But he's been forgetting things for as long as I can remember! ;)
     
  19. Raf

    Raf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    He sure has. Back in 1976 he said in an interview (Rolling Stone, I think) that "Twist and Shout" was one of the first tracks they recorded for Please Please Me.
     
  20. empirelvr

    empirelvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    When George consented to an interview with Audio magazine in the mid-80's as publicity for the Beatles' CD's (the release of the remixed Help!and Rubber Soul in particular) he was asked that exact question.

    I'll never forget his response as printed in the interview. His answer was "In here" while pointing to his head.

    So there ya go..... :winkgrin:
     
  21. empirelvr

    empirelvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    He sure has! His assertion that the first two LP's were never mixed in stereo or approved to be released by him in stereo and must have been mixed and issued after he resigned from EMI in the mid 60's, was shatterd by Lewishon in his book.

    Picture upon picture of mix notes, EMI interoffice memos and production sheets show he not only approved the release of the LP's in stereo and that they were shipped almost simulatenously with the monos; but that he was also present at the mix sessions for the stereo versions and did them with Norman Smith along with the mono mixes!

    Ahhh...but he's Sir George. A legend (and rightfully so,) so it's all okay in the end. He's earned his place in music history, bad memory notwithstanding.
     
  22. Rigsby

    Rigsby Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    It's funny isn't it that we escalate every moment of their output to legendary status but for George Martin, particularly in the early days, it was just a job, just another day at work. We have all the research and the paperwork now but imagine if someone asked you about something you did at work 40 or 50 years ago. I'm sure almost all of us here who are old enough (which I'm not yet!) would be equally as clueless!!
     
  23. empirelvr

    empirelvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Not only that, it's always the moments we thought were inconsequential or seemed so insignificant at the time that turn out to have been the most influential or important.
     
  24. rstamberg

    rstamberg Forum Resident

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    I need to crack open my MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR Deluxe set!
     
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