"Making a Murderer" on Netflix

Interview with Dean Strang

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...king_a_murderer_on_his_heartthrob_status.html

 

Thanks for that. Strang is a brilliant man, maybe even a genius. Buting was amazing, too.


Dan

 

Donnie Wahlberg thinks that the cops got it right...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...ng-murderer/071rUtEwUGnkTJfZL8NHcI/story.html

 

Yeah, if I ever get arrested in Wisconsin, I know who I want representing me.

 

Finally finished all 10 hours.

I'm convinced that the cops did things that were not right. I'm not completely convinced that Avery didn't commit the murder. He talked about wanting to tie up and hurt women when he was in jail the first time. He called Halbach's phone numerous times the day she came out. It's like he was working himself into a frenzy. I could be wrong of course, but I feel like there's a side to him that he keeps so skillfully supressed that it's hard for anyone to believe it's even there.

 

I can agree the cops may have gotten it right. But that isn't the problem. As depicted in the documentary, the problem is that it wasn't an organized, systematic objective "searching for the evidence" type of investigation, absent of bias. In fact, that the judicial system is deeply flawed is far more evident than anything else in this documentary.

 

I found the first few episodes to be absolutely compelling (making it really hard not to want to go right to the next one), but the pace really slowed after that, and maybe 10 episodes were a few too many.

In a show about rape, murder, police corruption and more, who would think that one man's smiling face might be the most repulsive part of the whole thing?

 

In a show about rape, murder, police corruption and more, who would think that one man's smiling face might be the most repulsive part of the whole thing?

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As soon as I saw him grinning at the cameras I thought there was something wrong about him, and then he opened his mouth and made the extraordinary statement that Avery was "evil incarnate" before a trial had even begun, that confirmed it for me.

 

This guy has made a few videos. He's from Avery's area in Wisconsin. This is his most recent video. He claims to have seen Avery on 11/31/05 @ a gas station. In his other videos he talks about when he owned a bar he was occasionally getting pressured / invited to this "secret sex club" that existed in the area at the time. The whole thing sounded a little Twin Peakish to me. One Eyed Jacks? Check it out.



Cue Angelo Badalamenti......

 

Whether he is innocent who knows. But as a court in my state once opined, in response to the states argument that society is penalized when a criminal escapes punishment: society is also penalized when the state does not follow its own laws.

 

I think that's where the issue gets lost here. Innocent or guilty, this man did not get a fair trial - that much should be obvious.

 

I saw the first two episodes on Saturday and the second two yesterday, and at this point I have no doubt that they are both innocent. I know I'm only 40% of the way through, but it was very difficult watching the police interviewers feeding/telling Brendan what happened and telling he was lying every time he told them what actually happened after school that afternoon/evening.

Does Len Kachinsky remind anyone else of Jerry Lundegaard from Fargo? What a sleaze bag. Then one of the reporters asks Lenny if Brendan is going to testify against Steven because he knows exactly what happened and had given his "confession" to the police. Lenny also has his PI make Brendan sign the "I'm Sorry" from after being so harassed by the PI that "it was what he wanted."

This documentary really documents the sleazy tactics of a corrupt criminal justice system so far that I've seen. It's sickening watching how these confessions and discoveries are made. The police officer who talked about how long the police were at the house (18 times?!) during an extended period of time indicated to me that the police had complete access to the place over an extended period of time. And watching the actual Sheriff saying that if they wanted to set up Steven Avery, they could just kill him put it all over the edge for me.

I can't wait to see the rest of this. It's compelling TV. I may check in after I've seen the rest. I've been watching the discussion so far. I first saw this on TMZ last Monday, and with the people who I know who've seen this and the people here who have written about it, I want to finish so I can see what the prosecution comes up with to put these guys away.

 

I agree in principle, but this simply isn't true. It is more likely to happen to those who are poor, less educated (READ less opportunity in many instances), non-whites (yes, I recognize Avery is white), powerless, defenseless, etc. A corrupt judicial system doesn't pick "fair fights" -- it goes for easy scores based on societal bias. E.g., most of those being released from prison after being exonerated by new DNA evidence are BLACK.

 

Money also has a huge part to play in the outcomes. Most men in prison didn't have access to the best attorneys like those of wealthier people. They usually plead to a lesser charge. People with $$$ are much more likely to get little to no time (see "Affluenza" teenager).

 

Yes, that is why I put "poor" in the "target" list first . . .

 

I was emphasizing the fact that people without the financial means to retain top-notch attorneys are left with Public Defenders who have huge caseloads and do their best to "just get a plea deal" to lighten their caseload. There are too many inmates without the financial means to have their cases handled appropriately. Brendan, in this case, as far as I've read, seems to fit this category.

 

Part of the trouble that I have with most of the "proof" are actually wrong as evidenced by videotaped documentation of something other than what was reported on the TV news (Boy Confessing to Help in Murder among many others). The videotaped evidence is enough for new trials or plain old exoneration. Again, any sheriff who would say that they could have killed him instead of planting evidence is capable of anything and everything wrong with this situation. I hope they both get out and get many millions of dollars for the time spent in prison.

 

I hope you are on the jury if I ever stand trial for murder.

 

I work in a prison, so I have heard (likely) much more than most people about what has happened to these guys in their trials, before their trials, with their public defenders - "public pretenders," and while they're in prison. I've seen a couple guys get out after appeals of their cases have gone through.

Watching what I've seen so far was incredulous. I simply can't believe that people who have seen what many of us who have seen it saw, i.e. that the sheriff had it in for Avery since 1985. That Brendan's attorney coerced him into making the "right" statement that Kachinsky wanted. It's freaking outrageous. I tell ya, I know what many of these guys tell me is the truth. Not all of them, by any means. But seeing how things can go so wrong and then reported by the media as truth is unbelievable. It wouldn't surprise me if someone doesn't take this and run it to up to and including the US Supreme Court.

 

Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Steven Avery did it? That Steven himself did it to the exclusion of the other Averys, other people?...

Can you say Steven Avery committed this crime "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt"? No IMO.

It doesn't mean Steven Avery is innocent. But that is not what the jury was tasked to do... to come to the conclusion of yes or no (or can't come to conclusion of) "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Failure all around.

Jeff

 

Exactly my thoughts. And am I the only one who thinks the voice of Dean Strang (Avery's shorter attorney) is almost identical to that of Saul Goodman (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul)? I noticed it right away and can't get it out of my head. Thankfully, Dean's a better attorney.

EDIT: ahh, apparently I'm not alone:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...e_else_think_dean_strang_sounds_exactly_like/

 

Most definitely, I thought so immediately. Part of it's probably a shared Wisconsin accent, but their voices are remarkably similar.

 

I finished watching the series yesterday. Incredible. I found websites that stated some of the evidence against Avery was omitted from the documentary. I am of the opinion that some of the physical evidence against Avery was likely planted (car key). I'm not sure Avery is innocent either. I agree with others that have posted. Avery and his nephew did not get fair trials.

 

One of Avery's attorneys (Strang I think) had the most insightful comment (IMO) in the entirety of the series - You don't plant evidence against people you think are innocent, you plant it against people that you are certain are guilty. Avery's guilt and the manipulation of evidence against him are not mutually exclusive.

 

I agree with you; his guilt and phony evidence are not mutually exclusive. If the websites are correct with evidence that Teresa’s phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery’s door, burned in his barrel and the 22 caliper bullet in the garage was fired from his rifle, it looks bad for him.