Mamas and Papas: Are Jill Gibson's vocals, not Michelle's on the 2nd album?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by kevinsinnott, Feb 11, 2008.

  1. kevinsinnott

    kevinsinnott Forum Coffeeologist

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    That photo really does have a different look, though. Far less intimate than their other shots with the "real" Michelle in them.
  2. bumbletort

    bumbletort Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Wow. I'd love to see that. Springboard! Always thought that album was intended to have a 'real' title. The cover used for Farewell to the First Golden Era would have been a great cover for it . . .

    The fourth album seemed to slip away in so many ways, although I've come to feel some of the greatest things they ever did are there.
  3. kevinsinnott

    kevinsinnott Forum Coffeeologist

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Safe in my Garden, Midnight Voyage, Nothing's Too Good for My Little Girl and Dream a Little Dream are some of my favorite Mamas and Papas tunes.

    Rooms just might be my favorite. In glorious mono too, why I don't know.
  4. Drifter

    Drifter Spring is here!

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, CA
    [​IMG]

    Definitely!

    Attached Files:

  5. namahealani

    namahealani Active Member

    On the disc itself it says "From Original Master Tapes"
    (although safety tapes may or may not be considered Masters, I'm not sure)

    Attached Files:

  6. Greatest Hits

    Greatest Hits Just Another Compilation

    Michelle recalls being at the session for "Words of Love" in the GREATEST HITS liner notes... so she probably was in the band whenever that song was recorded.
  7. bumbletort

    bumbletort Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    "Twelve Thirty", of course. And "Mansions", a remarkably intricate piece.

    I've felt for a long time that "Rooms", one of my very favorites as well, was probably from the Deliver sessions. May have been left off for lyrical content, such considerations going through much change in the public eye in that brief year-or-so?
  8. kevinsinnott

    kevinsinnott Forum Coffeeologist

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Interesting - I've always felt it must be from before the main sessions of the album as well. Your suggestion of the Deliver sessions makes sense.

    It's also got a fantastic electric guitar solo, unusual for the Mamas and Papas. I've always wondered who played it? PF Sloan? It sounds like the Secret Agent type of style.
  9. bumbletort

    bumbletort Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    One of the reasons I place it in Deliver (apart from the overall sound which does not seem John's home studio) is exactly that guitar. Those sessions seemed to have a bit of that sort of experimentation to them, such as "Free Advice".
  10. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    No safeties that I'm aware of - some alternate mixes that Steve got from either John or Michelle to use on this compilation.
  11. kevinsinnott

    kevinsinnott Forum Coffeeologist

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I stand corrected. And it would explain some mix differences between the stereo LPs and the CD versions.

    Thank You!
  12. That is Michelle, and that was like her favorite shirt (the bee looking black and yellow one). I can post like 10 different pictures from different photo shoots and at least one video where she's wearing it if you'd like me too.

    Also, Jill's voice is 100% for certain on several tracks on the 2nd LP. The M&P's is my absolute favorite musical people and I'm very familiar with their voices (I have all recordings from the Smoothies [minus one song I've never been able to track down], the Journeymen, Halifax Three, Big 3, Mugwumps, New Jouneymen, M&P's, the stuff they did with Barry McGuire, and all solo material except for Denny's rare Columbia acetate) and can say with absolute certainty that Jill is on that record. Her voice is particularly evident on Strange Young Girls and Dancing Bear, amongst several others.

    It sounds as if there are parts on the album where, rather than remove Jill's voice (which would basically be impossible with the manner in which they were recording), they added extra overdubs of Michelle singing the same part as Jill. With the terrible sound quality on every reissue of the album, however, it makes it really hard to tell.
  13. zen

    zen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Newark, CA. USA
    Wow, I never noticed this about the second album.

    Apparently, Michelle wasn't that important to their sound.
  14. dumangl

    dumangl Forum Resident

    From what I've read and I don't remember the sources, you are correct except that no Jill Gibson singing survived to be released. She did do some of the original vocal parts but did not replace any existing Michelle Phillips tracks.

    I'm a fan or Jill Gibson (Michelle too) and I'd :love: to hear her vocals with The Mamas And The Papas.
  15. JohnO

    JohnO Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
  16. jamesmaya

    jamesmaya Forum Resident

    The former is my favorite M&P song. Can you describe Jill's vocal part on that one?
  17. kevinsinnott

    kevinsinnott Forum Coffeeologist

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Very interesting. I have listened to various versions of the album but find it hard to spot the differences. I can certainly pick out Cass, John and Denny, but, especially as Cass has almost two voices, a soft and one where she belts out the vocal, I find it hard to spot Michelle distinctly. Since I don't recall Jill's voice from anywhere else, I don't really have a frame of reference.
  18. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Maven Of Rare Earth

    Location:
    Eastern Iowa
    There's this guy who has the same exact name as the guy who mastered that cd...he hangs around this forum at times. You should ask him. :D
  19. GV1967

    GV1967 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern US

    I'd say it's Michelle. Not that it couldn't be incorrect but Cass Elliot's official website says that photo was taken in June, 1967.
  20. 905

    905 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern IL
    It's certainly not Jill in that photo. :agree:
  21. stevemoss

    stevemoss Well-Known Member

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