Mariah Carey,Here We Go Again !!! And The Monkees (!!?)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Cousin It, May 9, 2002.

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  1. Cousin It

    Cousin It Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
  2. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    I was going to post this earlier, but I coulnd't get to the site. I was shaking my head... Okay, so someone just dumped even MORE money into her lap? Yeah, she'll be ALL ripe for creativity. She won't even want to get out of the jaccouzzi.

    She's a genius. I wish I could make that kind of money as I flopped around.
     
  3. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    I'm sorry I can't recall exactly, but just the other day I was thumbing through the new Mojo (I think) at a bookstore and read a quick interview with Elvis Costello. The last questian asked him what he thought of EMI's big buyout of Carey. Costello basically said he wouldn't say a bad thing about Carey, and that they were label mates on Def Jam. He said she should get back to her soul roots. Costello's a nice guy after all:D

    I don't think she ever had 'soul roots', but she's got a good set of pipes. If she'd cut the crap and tone down the act a bit, pick some cool tunes and a good producer, we might hear some good work out of her just yet. Of course, that probably wouldn't sell in this market...
    Dan C
     
  4. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    GOOD! I hope Mariah gets to laugh in EMI's face! They were stupid for getting rid of her. They are already paying dearly for getting rid of her. Now she has the opportunity to twist the knife.

    It is unrealistic to expect even superstars to hit a home run every time! Record companies are going to have to re-learn that artists and their work are not to be taken for granted. Maybe UNI will do the right thing and work with her, nurture her talent, and take the time it takes to make her a success. That is a win-win situation for any record company. You don't see Sony droppinfg Aerosmith after "Just Push Play", do you?

    Whether one likes Mariah and/or her music, one must admit that she does have real singing talent, and she ain't bad looking. either!
     
  5. Paul Chang

    Paul Chang Forum Old Boy, Former Senior Member Has-Been

    I wonder which of the two qualities is selling more records, I mean CDs, these days. :rolleyes:
     
  6. jligon

    jligon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Peoria, IL
    You're right Paul. Today, it's all about image and looks. The music takes a back seat to everything else. I'm sure the failure of her last album had nothing to do with the music being any worse than previous albums. The video probably wasn't sexy enough.:confused:

    I couldn't possibly care less than I do about her or most any of today's popular "stars." They are not musicians. In fact, they are not even a part of, what I consider to be, the music industry. They are a part of the "entertainment" industry in which music plays a very minor role. They are also not very entertaining.
     
  7. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    C'mon, Paul. It's the music. The kids today really don't care as much about image as adults think. If the music moves them enough, they will buy it. Just because her music doesn't do anything for you or me isn't a good reason to question her talent.:rolleyes:

    For an example, the music of Rush doesn't do anything for me but I don't question their talent.
     
  8. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Mariah Carey signs with Universal

    All,

    It has been reported that nobody is interested and that nobody cares!...just me being cynical about the present sad state of affairs in the music business....

    Bob :eek:
     
  9. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Re: Mariah Carey signs with Universal

    My post was directed more towards the state of the record industry and how the importance of making a profit is worse now than it's ever been in it's history. It's what happens when either these companies turn into conglomerates or when one record company gets swallowed by one. The shareholders are all that matter.
     
  10. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Re: Re: Mariah Carey signs with Universal

    Grant,

    Well said!

    Bob :)
     
  11. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'd like to chime in with the flip side, if I may!

    I hope MC will go on to bigger and better things, have some great albums, have a lot of sales.... perhaps being dumped by EMI could bring her 'down to earth'?

    THEN I am sure the record companies will take a second look at artist development, start cutting out the fluff, look for mucsical talent, tone down the dancing, stunts, dress code, 'approved image', marketing and start getting serious about the "music" which, as it just so happens, is why they exist!

    :)

    Yea, yea I know - but while there is life, there is hope! I can always hope, can't I? :D

    PS Reminds me when the Allman Brothers were first signed. The record company wanted them to go to a costume shop, dress as Confederates & Cowboys and get their picture taken. They refused.

    At least I *think* it was them. Maybe it was Skynyrd? I must be getting old... Marshall Tucker maybe? "sigh" Does anyone know?

    I'm SURE it wasn't Paul Revere & The Raiders! :D
     
  12. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    So, why can't the outfits and/or dancing be part of the musical act? Rock & Roll, and jazz music has always been about image. Of course, the people had talent to match. Some prime examples of where they went hand in hand.

    Cab Calloway
    James Brown
    Elvis Presley
    Michael Jackson
    The Temptations
    Jackie Wilson
    The Beatles
    Earth, Wind & Fire
    Creem
    Jimi Hendrix

    The difference nowadays is that image ALL the companies care about. They seem to think that it's what carries an (artist?).
     
  13. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Grant,

    Look at the talent you just listed!....and that is the point. Too much emphasis on "fluff, image, marketing and looks" today combined with a dearth of talent. All the studio tricks and digital manipulation in the world is not going to make Brittany Spears talented! But why is it that so many pre-teen and teen girls emulate her style of clothing--marketing and creation of a sense of cultural and social acceptance. At least Mariah Carey can actually sing!

    Bob
     
  14. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Sorry if i was not clear. I meant to say that the image seems to play a bigger part than actual musical talent these days.

    "Hey, this person looks cute! They can dance, are well co-ordianted, their face and body look like "the image" that sells. With the right corographers, backing musicians and make-up artists we have a winner!"

    "Wonder if they can sing or write music? No matter, we can handle the minor details!"

    So, to me anyway, it's a greater emphasis on Entertainment rather than Talent. You know waht I am saying?
     
  15. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Gary,

    I would take it one step further and say it is the creation of an "illusion of talent" in the studio in order to sell "units" driven by creation of "image and sexual desireability" over real talent--mass marketing through a variety of media. Many of the most talented musicians and artists in the past were not marketed as they are today. The music had to be great because the music is what sold the records.

    Bob
     
  16. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    A good point, Bob.

    But how would you describe the Monkees? A TV Phenomina perhaps? The predecessor of today's music?

    They did tour after their show died. Did they play their own instruments?

    G

    PS: And I really CAN spell "what". It's my fingers that have the problem - some fingers are faster than other fingers - it's not me!

    "sigh"
     
  17. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Gary,

    In hindsight, the Monkees were a harbringer of things to come. When compared to music and artists marketed to pre-Teens and Teens today they were benign and cute. It is my understanding that a LOT of talented studio musicians were used in their recordings--not usual in those days, right? Furthermore, it is my understanding that Michael Nesmith was the only Monkee with any real musical talent. Remember his solo hit Joanne?

    I was never a huge Monkees fan when they were popular (I was in high school) but I enjoyed their music but not that goofy TV show...oh my!

    Bob
     
  18. MagicAlex

    MagicAlex Gort Emeritus

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Maybe her new contract allows more freedom and will give Maria some room to mature in her music and put out some really amazing stuff. She has the voice for it.

    I am very doubtful but it would be nice, wouldn't it?
     
  19. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Alex,

    No doubt she can sing but I doubt we will see an expansion from the usual Pop, R & B sound-a-like recordings! Sales of "units" will dictate Universal's investment in her contract.

    Bob
     
  20. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Did you catch this link, Bob, provided by JohnnyK? At last, a reason to admit that I *like* the Monkees! :D The "Wrecking Crew" did the music for at least the first two Monkee's albums!

    http://abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/carolkay.htm

    A cut & paste from the site.

    Q: "Did we record the Monkees?"

    Carol Kay: You bet we did. Almost the same crew as who had cut the Beach Boys things. The first two albums. In fact, the way the Monkees got started is that we had cut many fine tracks for another group which never came to pass, and then they used that stuff to help form another group which became the Monkees. Never really saw them much (as far as I can remember) and just did tracks, that is the basic music without the singing.
    Hal Blaine (drummer) did a seminar once down here in San Diego this year and he told of one day when we were recording their stuff in the big studio at the new RCA studios, that the Monkees were simultaneously holding a press conference in the smaller studio next door, pretending that they were in the middle of "their" recording session (it was all a fake) and that it was "untrue" about the rumors that they didn't play on their own records. We just laughed at that at the time, but they keep trying to pretend about those dates. I do have to say that I personally thought that the Monkees were very nice guys, though, versus other groups we worked for who were a little egotistic, etc.
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Remember, The Monkees only made at the most $700.00 a week!

    Sheesh.
     
  22. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Steve,

    That would translate to about $2400 a week today--not bad pay but certainly not "rock star" pay!

    Bob
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    No, that pay really sucked. Any dolt on TV now gets zillions.
     
  24. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Stev,

    I know today they do (any dolt) but as I understand, in those days, it was different unless you were a movie star making the move to TV. People in certain entertainment professions have seen their compensation grow beyond what the rest of mortals have seen in earnings growth over a similar time period.

    Bob
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    True enough, Bob.

    I know it was hard for The Monkees ('cause two of them told me so) after they became famous, learned how to play and write songs, go on tour, hang with the Beatles, have screaming fans everywhere and STILL (for the second season) make 700 bucks a week. Must have been tough going back to those lonely Columbia Studio sound stages with a just a bunch of old stage hands for company 15 hours a day after all that hoopla.
     
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