“Mastered by Nimbus” CDs question.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by flashgordon, May 25, 2007.

  1. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    “Mastered by Nimbus” CDs question.

    Just to note the 1 dot Nimbus posted of Lizard seems to match the EGCD 4 made in France by MPO purchased in the UK 1987-ish,
    the MPO edition also shares the same barcode (back cover image) if discogs images are correct;
    King Crimson - Lizard

    The / my confusion being the combination of ‘Made in France by MPO’ and ‘Mastered by Nimbus’ on the same disc = was there a Nimbus plant in France?

    No mention of Nimbus on this disc;
    Matrix: EGCD 4 MPO 01 @
    Plastic Hub Embossed: 08 COMPACT DISC MPO FRANCE
    EAC;
    72 / 67.3 / 81.5 / 30.9 / 82.8
    DR;
    12 / 12 / 10 / 12 / 13
    RMS;
    -18.91 / -19.02 / -16.39 / -21.61 / -19.89

    Also wonder if the 2 dot edition is as the later definitive editions 1989?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
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  2. havefun6699

    havefun6699 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Yes it is the definitive edition (as I understood it later) though not mentioned on the disc or paper inserts. It should have a sticker on the box lid.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK

    Your 2 dot Nimbus variant may not be a definitive edition after all;
    Getting To The Bottom of King Crimson On CD

    Merely a level shift stage before the definitive editions of 1989.
    I have a Nimbus Wake of Poseidon cd which has 3 dots I think predates the DE editions; it is also shown on the link posted.

    Still not sure about Nimbus discs ‘Made in France by MPO’ though :) ?
     
  4. Front 242 Addict

    Front 242 Addict "I'll drink the moonlight from your hands"

    Location:
    Tel Aviv ,Israel
    Mbe , The cd that you have is the original Lizard and not the DE,
    I also have the original cd but with the Nimbus
    there are 2 Lizard original cds (pre DE) with different peak levels but the same mastering
    81.6 / 71.0 / 86.8 / 35.7 / 100.0
    72.0 / 67.3 / 81.5 / 30.9 / 82.8 this is the levels of my cd

    I copied these levels from a 40 pages thread that vanished,
    If you want just let me know and I will send you the peak levels of all the original King Crimson cds ( pre-de) from In The Court up to Red (included) so you can find out if you have the De or the original:)

    P.S. I just saw that you found the long -mysterious thread and you know those levels already:cool:.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
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  5. havefun6699

    havefun6699 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Sounds strange, doesn't it?
     
  6. Front 242 Addict

    Front 242 Addict "I'll drink the moonlight from your hands"

    Location:
    Tel Aviv ,Israel
    Yes, it is strange but it's the same case with In the Court original EG cd and MPO France cd, (both pre-de)
    the same mastering but Small differences in the peak levels.
     
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  7. havefun6699

    havefun6699 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Actually it is a DE. Japanese edition PCCY-00663 which clearly states it is Fripp/Arnold 1989 remaster has the same peak levels.
    Double checked it right now
    81.6 / 71.0 / 86.8 / 35.7 / 100.0
     
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  8. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    :)

    Interesting as this could ultimately have implications for the 3 dot Nimbus Poseidon also being a DE?
    CD case tray reverse has ‘Patents Pending 11.4’ = don’t remember ever changing case.

    Matrix: EGCD 2 :- (3 dot) Mastered By Nimbus
    EAC;
    8.9 / 100 / 48.1 / 91.9 / 31.3 / 91.8 79.1 / 54.1
    DR;
    10 / 11 / 13 / 11 / 11 / 12 / 10 / 13
    RMS;
    -39.60 / -15.22 / -23.18 / -15.56 / -26.60 / -16.06 / -15.98 / -23.57

    As with other questionable releases there is no mention of Definitive Edition;
    [​IMG]

    Oh well, the joys of cd.
     
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  9. havefun6699

    havefun6699 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    I can tell for sure, this is NOT a remaster. The peak levels coincide with 32VD-1064 Japan first press and some other non-remastered editions. There exists earlier Nimbus version with one dot and same mastering
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. ffracer

    ffracer Custom Title

    There was no Nimbus plant in France. MPO is a competing pressing company. Looks like they left the Made in France by MPO in the silkscreen when Nimbus pressed it in the UK. The disc has a Nimbus style hub, not an MPO style hub, so it looks like a printing error.
     
  11. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    Our client's provided the master source for the audio and artwork for the disc silkscreen. We didn't question that content. Tested yes, for replication compatibility, but content provided by a content, whether audio or visual, was used as-is. Also, Nimbus did not have an in house art department, that created designs for our clients. So, odd mismatched wording or logos, etc., would have been generated by our client's.

    Again, Dots, following the catalog number, were generated in Glass Mastering, via the Laser Beam Recorder. One Dot for each Mastering attempt. Incrementing the Dot could stem from needing multiple stampers for a large production run, so several Cuts were generated from the start. Or a stamper failed in production, and a second Cut was generated, to replace it. Or, a new master was provided by our client, and we generated another Cut, and changed the Dot, to differentiate between the 2 versions. Typically, all ReCuts were made with the exact same master content, as previous Cuts. But, as noted, client's could update a master at their discretion, then provide that master for represses.

    Also, to the best of my knowledge, there were no 'secret' Cuts. Just 3 different LBR's, with slight variations in the look of their catalog bands. Plus, catalog bands could look somewhat distorted, due to having to adjust Pitch and Velocity settings, when creating a glass master for a 65+ minute recording. Pitch and Velocity settings were slowed, to allow for greater data capability. This could muck up the catalog bands.

    Finally, Sticky Discs. Sorry about those, as I've experienced them too. In my experience, it's a lacquer issue. Specifically, lacquer that didn't properly cure. UV light is used to cure lacquer during production. Curing takes place between pressing and silk screening. It's parts of an automated process, and it's timed to the molding press ahead of it in the process. If a press is cycling too fast, there's slightly less curing time for the lacquer. Plus, some brands of lacquer took longer to cure. Hense, some sticky discs, due to lacquer issues. It doesn't typically hurt disc longevity, but it was a nuisance.

    Hope this helps?

    Oh yea. We had Nimbus UK (in Monmouth and Cwmbran Wales) and Nimbus Charlottesville, VA, USA. That's it. Nothing in France.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  12. Joolio Geordio

    Joolio Geordio Active Member

    I used to visit Cwmbran and Charlottesville, loved the fantastic Gone With the Wind era mansion house at Charlottesville. There also used be a Nimbus plant in Luxembourg - CD-ROM mainly I think and also Sunnyvale again CD-ROM might have been a joint venture with RR Donnelly/Stream.
     
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  13. havefun6699

    havefun6699 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Great post, thank you!
    Would you say something about that wide mirror band between catalog band (as you name it) and clear hub on earlier CD's? Is it a trait of one of Nimbus LBR?
     
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  14. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    The Sunnyvale plant was part of the Technicolor expansion. We actually had a large pressing plant there. Several smaller sites too, in other areas of the U.S. But, again, those were Technicolor plants, and not considered Nimbus sites.

    Also, the Farmhouse was beautiful. It's still there, but no longer owned by Nimbus or Technicolor. Now, it's privately owned, and it has been renovated. Even more beautiful. It's up for sale, if you can afford it?

    Gone With The Wind
    mansion.
     
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  15. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    Do you mean this type of mirror band?

    [​IMG]

    If so, it was the nature of our Laser Beam Recorders. Our systems were almost all manually controlled. As such, when you started a new Cut, the LBR turntable was turned on, then at a specific radius, the laser was switched on, then the Catalog Band was generated, and finally, the master was switched on and the data was encoded onto the Cut. If I'm guessing correctly, you're seeing the mirrored area when the laser was turned on, but before the Catalog Band was generated. There's nothing there. Just a mirrored area.

    We also have some discs, that exhibit a mirror band in the outer edge of the disc. This was a feature from the earlier days at Nimbus. We turned the laser off, after the data had finished, and manually advanced the turntable to a radius 10mm further into the Cut, then turned the LBR back on. While it might seem silly to do, it saved 10 minutes of Cutting time, and allowed one extra Cut during a 12 hour shift.
     
  16. havefun6699

    havefun6699 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Great to have it from the very first hands, thank you!
    Can't resist the temptation to ask one more question. Is it right that initially all CD's produced at the Nimbus plant had "Nimbus England" in catalog band and only after some time it was changed to "Mastered by Nimbus"? Or both inscriptions were in use simultaneously from the start?
     
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  17. Joolio Geordio

    Joolio Geordio Active Member

    I would think that this early in the CD replication era MPO may not have had in house mastering and may well have outsourced its stamper production to Nimbus.
     
  18. ffracer

    ffracer Custom Title

    They did have in house glass master capability at the time. There are plenty of early MPO pressed discs from 1985 to show this. The question is whether that any presser would reuse an existing stamper due to cost or logistics vs. make their own. This is not one. The matrix gives away who made the stamper.
     
  19. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    For MPO, I think the earliest I have is the 85 for Epic Dead or Alive-Youthquake+2 and a beautiful 1986 Erasure-Wonderland 14 tracker w/hub stamp. Not sure on the MPO hub stamps though, Some 85/86 releases I have don't carry them, they may have come later. My 1987 Front 242-Official Version has one. So this Erasure may have been manufactured later.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. OnTheRoad

    OnTheRoad Forum Resident

    Not sure if this is an oddity or a regular occurence but...

    I have a cd from the UK, mastered by Nimbus (over there), and it's got a DIDX 'number' on the back cover and booklet but NOT the disc itself.

    I dunno...is this weird or have I just noticed that before ?
     
  21. ffracer

    ffracer Custom Title

    There are lots of CDs with DIDX numbers, but not pressed at Sony DADC, because either the master was done there at one time and/or CBS/Sony Japan or Sony DADC was one of the original pressers.

    Lots of US Capitol discs, early MCA CDs, and earlier Fantasy/Prestige CDs have DIDX numbers on the inserts and/or disc label, yet the disc was not made at a Sony plant.
     
  22. OnTheRoad

    OnTheRoad Forum Resident

    Yeah...I've seen it on domestic pressings....but haven't noticed it on foreign pressings.

    By the way...it's this cd,

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    :)

    A couple of MPO varient hubs for Ricochet, Larks Tongues, Strangeways;

    [​IMG]

    Ricochet has ‘3’ embossed on the hub four times
    Larks Tongues has ‘COMPACT DISC MPO FRANCE 01’ embossed
    Strangeways Here We Come also has ‘COMPACT DISC MPO FRANCE 01’ embossed

    Meat is Murder not embossed (01 matrix)
    Louder than Bombs not embossed (01 matrix)

    Mr MPO you are needed to start an info thread :)

    I have a few sticky (if correct term) Nimbus cd’s which luckily I have never attempted to clean with a cloth
    just used a soft brush for dust particles which may try to attach themselves to the surface.

    Oh and I almost forgot, Thanks for sharing all the information.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  24. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    You are welcome! My pleasure.

    As to Nimbus VA producing discs with Nimbus England, yes that happened, early on. Nimbus UK provided the pressing stampers until our on internal electroforming shop was up and running. Most of the material was Nimbus label content. As such, it was OK for Nimbus UK to send that, since they also owned the content. Also, until our plating shop was 100% operational, there was some overlap, with metal from both sites beibg used in replication. But the overlap went away pretty quickly, as the Charlottesville site soon surpassed the Nimbus UK disc pressing capability.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
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  25. havefun6699

    havefun6699 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    I was refering to these two slightly different Nimbus matrix appearances. Were they in use at the same time or one preceeded another?

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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