Matt Monro - The George Martin Years CD (& appreciation thread) *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by vzok, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. Norman Day

    Norman Day Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I believe Christmas Magic was recorded in 1956. Where does this track fit in? It is not mentioned in the Sessionography as far as I can see. It seems to be only available on 'Public Domain' type releases apart from the CD Single released by Mattmonro.com (which I am ordering).
     
  2. RMoore

    RMoore Forum Resident

    Don't confuse "Love Story" with "Love Song"

    Love Song was recorded for Capitol and exists in it's originally released edited form on the single release and "Complete Singles Collection" and in unedited form on Rare Monro.

    "Love Story" recorded for EMI in 1971 was not initially released. It eventually was dubbed into Spanish and released in Spain/South America. This received it's first release in the UK on From Matt With Love, taken from a disc dub as the mix down master is somewhere in South America and couldn't be traced. When putting Matt at the Movies together I tracked down the multitrack and found that there was an English vocal. However Parts had been wiped by the Spanish vocal. Peter Mew - who mixed the English version was able to piece together MOST of the vocal, bar the final line. This version was first released on Matt at the Movies and later added to the Rarities Collection. "Love Song" being a Capitol track we were not able to include it on the Rarities Collection.

    "When I Look In Your Eyes" on Rare is the Spanish Vocal. I only found the English tape (which the Monro estate had been asking capitol to look for for years) a few years later. It was first released on Matt at the Movies.

    "It's alright with me" on Matt at the Movies is a 1964 big band arrangement of the song. The version on Rare Monro (labeled "The Wrong Time" as were the tapes and session documentation) was with a trio recorded in 1961 and recorded for fun at the end of a session.
     
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  3. RMoore

    RMoore Forum Resident

    Sort of correct. As Vzok said it was dropped from Uncovered for rights reasons. The notes I copied here were from before it was dropped. However it was made available on LP in 1959 and in the early 2000's on CD in Japan.
     
  4. RMoore

    RMoore Forum Resident

    The last time the Decca tapes were digitised was in 1988 for the CD "Matt & Mel" on Decca Eclipse. Universal have not allowed access since. However working from the 1988 transfer I remastered all the Decca recordings for "Matt Monro Sings" (Not Now Music) which is the only estate supported version of the tracks and comes with the bonus of the soundtrack to the "An Evening With Matt Monro" DVD.

    Universal have never let us get new transfers of these or the Fontana tapes. For Complete Singles I had to use a mint vinyl copy of "Matt Monro meets Tony Blackburn" and remove all "electronically created stereo" effects - they would licence the tracks to EMI, but not let them have copies of the recordings!
     
  5. RMoore

    RMoore Forum Resident

    "Christmas Magic" isn't public domain. It was recorded and broadcast in 1961 and released by the Estate in 2005 which means it is in copyright until 2075. I have never seen it on a public domain release. Any downloads via releases from "One Media" are licensed from the Estate, as is the best quality version - re-transferred from Matt's acetate - is on "Operation Santa Claus" on Mint Audio Records - My label! - and once again fully licensed (as are all the Matt Monro Recordings on my label!).

    It is in the sessionography. Look at Part 7 - Live and Radio Recordings issued on CD. 2nd December 1961
     
  6. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Member

    Location:
    UK
    Any Monro fan must be delighted to have your regular input and information on this thread on a regular basis Richard. I’m have only just started to explore Matt's catalogue outside of the general "Greatest Hits" collections that appeared in the 80s/90s. I have just ordered the George Martin CD and The Singers Singer 4 CD Set, plus the book, but I suspect I have a long way to go if I want a complete collection, if of course everything has been made available on a variety of CDs across many years. The fun of collecting music by popular artists and the frustration when record companies don’t play ball. Thank heavens Sony are very accommodating with Elvis.
     
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  7. Norman Day

    Norman Day Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks. I didn't realise it was a broadcast. I got my iTunes download from a One Media release - 'Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas'. I am pleased that it is legit. I have bought a lossless download of 'Operation Santa Claus' now! No booklet sadly. Could you say where the replaced tracks in the Ted Thomas interview are from? Are they all 'standard' releases?
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  8. Norman Day

    Norman Day Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks - yes I was confused there! This historical info is fascinating.
     
  9. RMoore

    RMoore Forum Resident

    They are all the remastered tracks I made for the CD set "Words and Music" which besides an abridged talking book of "The Singer's Singer" It has the Hoagy Carmichael Sessions - the complete Hoagy album plus out-takes. These were taken from a tape that was marked "Do Not Use" which turned out to contain the album cut together directly from the 2 track session tapes (which apart from one reel no longer exist). George Martin and Stuart Eltham drastically compressed for vinyl release. I used the uncompressed session comp to create a far more dynamic release.
     
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  10. RMoore

    RMoore Forum Resident

    After all these years there are still a few fracks that have never made it to CD!
     
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  11. Norman Day

    Norman Day Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I have 'Words and Music' and it is excellent. Could you say a bit more about 'The Alternate Monro'? For example what is the story with the Annex Studios releases?
     
  12. vzok

    vzok Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    I'm glad that this newly renamed appreciation thread has taken off. It's so great that Matt is being discussed on here (even if Richard is doing all the heavy lifting at the moment).

    I'd often thought about doing a Matt Monro album-by-album thread, but had assumed that would be a discussion I'd end up having with myself.
     
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  13. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Member

    Location:
    UK
    A couple of questions for those more knowledgeable than me. The majority of albums released in the 60s were in Mono or Stereo (apart from Hits of Yesterday in Mono only) so does anyone know if the mono variants were just "fold downs" from the stereo recordings, or mixed especially for mono. Also, are the tracks on the 5 CD Set The Singles Collection in Mono where applicable to original single release.
     
  14. vzok

    vzok Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    I think in the 60s Matt's recordings were done in both stereo and mono. George Martin set it up that way.
     
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  15. adriatikfan

    adriatikfan Forum Resident

    A thread like that would be terrific, although it might - like some similar threads - end up as a general appreciation thread but I think there are a core of fans on this forum who would contribute - and maybe attract a few (hopefully more than a few) new converts.

    Only slightly OT - I'm currently taking advantage of the free 12-day Tidal trial.

    Interestingly, -albeit only on a brief look - there are a considerable number of Matt's albums 'available' for streaming.

    I hope that all of the correct licensing agreements etc., are in place and that correct and appropriate royalties are being paid. There seem to be at least a couple of 'grey area' discs - 'Matt Monroe On TV, Vol.2' maybe???? I haven't had time to check the titles listed against 'official' releases.

    I know that there are discussions about the merits of streaming elsewhere - I suppose it's a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand there is the possibility of greater exposure and picking up new and returning fans. On the other hand, it potentially takes away the actual sale of hard copy. If there is an appropriate revenue stream for the official releases then maybe it is a good thing. I'm still undecided.

    It would be interesting to know what kind of 'take-up' - if that's the correct term - of Matt's catalogue is on the streaming services. I wonder if they make such figures available to anyone.

    Best Wishes,
    David
     
  16. RMoore

    RMoore Forum Resident

    The Alternate Monro is an interesting one and could have been a double album, but due to budget constraints, I was restricted to the number of tracks where I could have multis transferred - Abbey Road wanted £10,000 to copy all i wanted! I ended up having only a small number transferred, mainly 4 tracks, with a couple of 16 tracks. I did hit it lucky though. I discovered some DVD rom's in the archive listings where several full 16 track tapes had been copied to protools files. Back in the mid 2000's Cliff Richard was making a duets album and wanted to sing with his hero -Matt! I knew he'd used the original track and just replaced sections of vocals, what I didn't know until this point was he had a number of songs on mind. This is why there are so many alternates from the "Other Side Of The Stars" sessions. The whole thing was a lot of fun as I got to listen to whole sessions and choose what I thought were the best takes - Sometimes disagreeing with the great George Martin over what was thought to be the best take recorded.

    The Recordings from Annex Studios (an additional studio attached to Radio Recorders, Hollywood) come from sessions for the American Air Force band - The Airmen of Note, "Serenade in Blue" radio series, sent out as a transcription as part entertainment, part recruitment drive. quite a lot of well know artists recorded for the show. Matt recorded 5 songs which were split over 3 editions (with one song repeated). One song "Georgy Girl" was also issued on a promo LP "Airmen of Note & Friends".

    As Capitol track were now off limits to Parlophone/Warner we wanted to use something to represent that era. After a lot of wrangling I managed to get through to the then archivist of the Airmen to see if I could get copies of the masters. Alas, no tapes were kept only library copies of the transcription box sets. They supplied me with transfers made by a studio local to them (for a hideously overpriced fee!) and I worked from those files to create new masters. Once track was supplied in Mono only (although I knew stereo existed, but there was no budget to get a new transfer!) which is why only four of the songs were included. Since that time Michele and I have managed to track down copies of the discs that are in far better condition than those held by the Airforce, and new masters of all five can be used if we ever managed to get another release!

    An interesting aside is that the arrangements used here for Born Free and My Kind of Girl are Johnnie Spence's re-arrangements for Matt's live shows. The others being adapted from arrangements recently used on Capitol albums.

    Hope that answers your question. I can't find the notes I wrote for the tracks at the moment but here are my rough notes (originally in table form) that I compiled when putting my notes together.

    They are listed in this order - Note this is not necessarily the final track order

    Title

    Previous Release

    Engineer

    Producer

    Date

    Studio

    Arranger Conductor


    1. These Things Happen (Take 3)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    20th January 1960

    Abbey Road

    Ron Goodwin


    2. Fare The Well My Pretty Maid (Take 1)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    2nd March 1960

    Abbey Road

    Tommy Watt


    3. Love Walked In (Take 1)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    2nd March 1960

    Abbey Road

    Tommy Watt


    4. Portrait Of My Love (Take 3)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    2nd November 1960

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    5. Such Is My Love (Take 3)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    25th April 1961

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    6. Why Not Now (Take 11)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    25th April 1961

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    7. Easier Said Than Done

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    11th May 1961

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    8. Everything Is Nothing Without You (Take 5)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    11th May 1961

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    9. Gonna Build a Mountain (Take 3 & 7)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    21st August 1961

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    10. Fools Rush In (Take 2)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    18th April 1962

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    11. My Love And Devotion (Edit Take 8/9)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    18th April 1962

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    12. When Love Come Along (Take 9)

    Unreleased (Mixed P Mew 2010)

    Norman Smith

    George Martin

    2nd May 1962

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    13. One Day (RS 4 Heartbreakers version- Take 7)

    More Heartbreakers (1984) (Mixed S. Eltham 1963)

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    10th January 1963

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    14. Without The One I Love (Take 5)

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    10th January 1963

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    15. My Friend My Friend Tk 8

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    2nd April 1963

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    16. From Russia With Love Tk 5

    Unreleased

    Stuart Eltham

    George Martin

    1st September 1963

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence


    17. Without You Tk 2

    Unreleased

    Norman Smith

    George Martin

    8th January 1965

    Abbey Road

    Johnnie Spence



    18. My Kind Of Girl


    USAF Airmen Of Note 1967 – Worldwide Public domain

    Dave Wiechman

    Major Jack Oswald

    19th May 1967

    Annex Studios, Hollywood

    CWO Bob Bunton


    19. Born Free

    USAF Airmen Of Note 1967 – Worldwide Public domain

    Dave Wiechman

    Major Jack Oswald

    19th May 1967

    Annex Studios, Hollywood

    CWO Bob Bunton


    20. In The Arms Of Love

    USAF Airmen Of Note 1967 – Worldwide Public domain

    Dave Wiechman

    Major Jack Oswald

    19th May 1967

    Annex Studios, Hollywood

    CWO Bob Bunton


    21. Georgy Girl

    USAF Airmen Of Note 1967 – Worldwide Public domain

    Dave Wiechman

    Major Jack Oswald

    19th May 1967

    Annex Studios, Hollywood

    CWO Bob Bunton


    22. What A Wonderful World Take 2

    Unreleased

    Jack Clegg

    John Burgess

    23rd November 1972

    AIR Studios, London

    Colin Keyes


    23. Let There Be Love Takes 2/3

    Unreleased

    Jack Clegg

    John Burgess

    23rd November 1972

    AIR Studios, London

    Colin Keyes


    24. Let Me Sing & I’m Happy (Take 1)

    Unreleased

    Jack Clegg

    John Burgess

    24th November 1972

    AIR Studios, London

    Colin Keyes


    25. Yesterday When I Was Young - alt vocal mix

    Unreleased

    Jack Clegg

    John Burgess

    2nd January 1973

    AIR Studios, London

    Colin Keyes


    26. I'm Glad I'm Not Young Anymore (Take 2 – Master Vocal)

    Unreleased

    Jack Clegg

    John Burgess

    2nd January 1973

    AIR Studios, London

    Colin Keyes



    27. Did it Happen (Take 2)


    Unreleased

    Alan Parsons

    Peter Sullivan

    3rd August 1973

    Abbey Road Studios

    Colin Keyes


    Tracks 1- 11 come from 1 or 2 track session reels
    12, 14 - 17 from 4 track session reels
    13 from original 1963 mixdown reel
    18 - 21 disc dubs
    22 - 27 from 16 track session reels (22 - 26 thanks to Cliff!)
     
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  17. RMoore

    RMoore Forum Resident

    Everything at Decca/Fontana was direct mono as were Matt's first two sessions for Parlophone. From "Portrait of my Love" onward they were recorded stereo and delta mono simultaneously (Delta was basically a fold down of the stereo sent to a mono machine). All songs at this point were recorded with Stereo as the main choice. The only stray session (and i've never uncovered why it was done among so many direct stereo recordings, and is a whole post in it's self) was "When Love Comes Along" recorded 4 track in 1962. This includes all Matt's first two Parlophone LP's. Mono & Stereo releases were all identical mixes, only one difference, "Softly As I leave you" is edited from two different takes and the mono edit is in a slightly different place to the stereo

    From January 1963 everything was 4 track, but still with stereo in mind and often using only three tracks. 1. Vocal, 2. Orchestra 3. Rhythm (These were all live in the studio so bled into each other a certain amount. Most singles were mixed to both Mono & Stereo with US album releases in mind (on Liberty). This stayed the same until he left Parlophone. Only one session was very different - From Russia with Love. Once again a longer story.

    Capitol recorded in 3 and 4 track (sometime both at the same time!) and the mixes are pretty much identical. Some may have been dedicated Mono, but most i suspect were fold downs. From 1968 after "The Late Late Show" everything was Stereo only (or on rare occasions fold downs. He made one session in the USA on 8 track.

    Back to EMI, all tracks were on multi's and range from 8 to 24 tracks.

    The Complete singles Contains virtually everything post 1960 in Stereo. Only a few were re-mixed for that set. A few songs only exist in Mono, the multi's having gone a long time ago. All match the single releases 100% - I played them all side by side to check the mixes were pretty much identical in every way. A couple had to be re-edited where a later stereo mix had a different edit point (Session reels no longer existed but the unedited mixdown reels did!). Two tracks were released in Mono on that set that I would have liked in Stereo. Tahiti & From Russia, but the session reels were MIA at the time - They were on my archive listing but the computerized system at the Hayes archive said otherwise - Another long story. Both now found. From Russia subsequently remixed for the 2011 remaster of Singer's Singer and Tahiti direct from the stereo session tape on the recent George Martin set.

    Hits of Yesterday whilst in mono contains 2nd or third gen copies of mono single masters (which is why it's a bit lo fi in places) however one song "Unchained Melody" - never released as a single and NOT a hit - is a unique edit not foudn anywhere else.

    Will answer more questions tomorrow!

    Richard
     
  18. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Member

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks Richard. Mind blowing information. You say that the majority of tracks on The Singles Set are in Stereo, but were (and are) the mono variants available. It would be interesting to hear them as released per the singles which I suspect are rarer now. With the recent trend to get back to Mono with many artists, did you have the option of releasing The Singles Collection in Pure Mono so that they could be heard as back in the day, as such?
     
  19. Norman Day

    Norman Day Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK

    That's perfect - thanks.

    There are only two tracks transposed in your list btw, 26 & 27.

    I hope you can organise some crowd funding through Pledge Music or whoever. I think you would find that there are a lot of people out there who believe your valuable work should continue.
     
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  20. Norman Day

    Norman Day Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Not necessarily! :) Thanks for getting the thread renamed.
     
  21. Norman Day

    Norman Day Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Qobuz is worth checking out as they seem to have all of Mr Moore's work available for lossless download as well as loads of other Monro albums. No booklets though sadly. The physical version is therefore preferable for that reason though I have to weigh that against my unfortunate lack of storage.
     
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  22. Norman Day

    Norman Day Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Well if they are the same mix then I would think that the stereo version must be preferable. This is not a similar situation to the one that produced 'The Beatles in Mono'.
     
  23. vzok

    vzok Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Sorry to add to your growing list of questions Richard, but as a Bond fan I'd be interested to hear the From Russia With Love story in detail.
     
  24. vzok

    vzok Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    I believe that Matt Monroe On TV vols 1 and 2 is audio taken from performances on various Matt DVDs. I can see that the copyright is with Odeon, who I think released the DVDs, so I'd imagine that makes it an official release.
     
  25. Great Music Lover

    Great Music Lover Member

    Location:
    UK
    Maybe so, but in a historical context, Mono was how people listened to those singles whereas I suspect, every new CD album or compilation that have been released over the years will be in Stereo. I have no idea how many of the "B" sides have been issued in Stereo, so that may have been a deciding factor for rarity purposes I guess. Maybe I’ll do my own Mono conversion when my Set arrives.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017

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