McCartney's RAM - How did the mono mix fix the stereo phase issues?

It is often noted that the stereo mix of RAM suffers from phasing issues, and this is the reason a mono mix was prepared for the radio.

Does anyone know how the mono mix managed to solve the problem? If the multi-tracks themselves were out of phase, how did they do it? The mono sounds great, without a hint of phase problems.

Thoughts? Theories?

 

I'd like to know too, there was a thread that touched on it:
Paul McCartney Ram Mono vs Stereo

 

Yep, I was there today also. But they stop short of nailing the exact issue.

 

The problem is on the stereo mix tape - it's that 2-track tape that is out of alignment, not the multi. So a mono mix wouldn't have the problem.

With a digital editor, the problem on the stereo mix is easily fixable - you simply have to move one of the channels along by a few samples.

 

Indeed, there's been a phase-corrected version floating around on torrent sites for years.

I still prefer the mono overall.

 

I prefer the mono as well, simply for what I feel is a better balanced mix. Too Many People is stronger, and Dear Boy is just perfect with the harmonies down a notch.

The reason I started this thread, though is because I found this thread:

Steve Hoffman - Question regarding DCC Gold Disc of Paul McCartney's "RAM"

Note that Steve H seems to be suggesting that the phase issue did not creep in on the final mix. Unless I'm reading this wrong, it implies something further upstream. That could be a track bounce, for instance, where some non-isolated sound snuck in to the bounce. He also mentions that the actual issue has been covered on the forums, but I cannot locate that.

Does anyone have good source info that says it was the stereo mix decks?

 

It can't be anything to do with a bad track bounce because the mono mix would suffer similarly - those elements would still have to be combined in a mono mix.

The stereo mix of 'Money' on WTB suffers from the exact same problem - the left and right channels of the stereo mix are off by about 6 samples, causing phasiness when combined (see the US Second Album for the result of a fold down of that).

 

Speaking hypothetically, as I don't really have a clue, if the bounce spanned machines, that could be a fixable multi track phase issue. It could mess up the stereo master, but could also be fixed by adjusting manually the difference between the two machines just as is being described as a post-digital fix, and mastering again. Of course this would also mean that one deck tended to be the left, and the other the right to match what everyone is perceiving.

 

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it's just a fairly common problem of a misaligned stereo machine capturing the final mix.

It's only noticeable on stuff that is in both channels - including the lead vocal (usually centered), which was probably never bounced anyway.

 

This would seem to be the most obvious answer.

But then why go make a brand new mix in mono, when they just needed to fix the stereo? That's the bit that's needling me.

 

Probably not as easy to do back then. We're talking a tiny fraction of a second that throws the sound off.

Easy to do when looking at a digital editor though, which makes me wonder why no official release has ever fixed it.

 

Does the phasing problem in the stereo mix still exist in the McCartney Archive remaster?
I plan to buy the super deluxe book of Ram soon while a US vinyl pressing of the album is on the way to me already.

I guess that answered my question.

 

I guess it would mean a re-do of the stereo mix. And maybe no one had the desire to do that, so they just did the mono one-off for am radio.

 

Yes, that's my guess too.

 

Mono RAM version.
Is there a new vinyl version coming out or what ?

 

Thank you, Lemon Curry!
I am glad you started this thread.
I only ever saw this mentioned in The 910(Shorten Reportin'...Steve Shorten???)
"What was an entire side of the album is still horribly out of phase"...
I can't remember if this was in reference to DCC Gold release or not.
Here's what bugs me:
WHICH SIDE is out of phase?
Side 1 or Side 2?
How was this determined via casual listening?
(ie how did ANYBODY hear this by playing the album...or how did Steve Shorten know this?)
Any help is appreciated! Thanks again!

 

Both sides.

 

I have the DCC RAM.
What's wrong with it?

 

I'm referring to the "AM Radio" mono mix included in the RAM box set released a few years ago. I have it as a CD, not sure if a vinyl version exists.

It was originally released to radio stations in 1971 but not to the buying public. I'm not aware of anything else new coming out.

This thread is focused on how that mono mix was specifically able to correct the phase issues known to be in the stereo mix.

 

There's nothing wrong unless it is folded down to mono. So a mono mix was done for radio, Hardly any demand for mono in 1971.

 

I might be wrong but months (or years) ago I think I saw a limited release of the mono mix on vinyl made for Record Store Day or something.
The sleeve was white though, no nice color sleeve like the official Ram cover.

 

Yeah ..I only have a digibook mono boot cd of it. Be most welcome in Mono vinyl. Regarding phasing? Never had a problem with the DCC gold st version.
But, the mono v packs the sonic punch ..more cohesive.

 

There was the mono mix vinyl released shortly after the new archives version. It wasn't an RSD IIRC. I have it and it is an interesting alternative. Comes in a plain (off) white sleeve scanned from a radio station copy.

 

This could be yet another thread on its own!

On Money, they used two track machines, right? The band was recorded in stereo on deck one, then bounced to one track on deck two with vocals added on deck two, track two. Other than bleed caused by not using headphones, where does the phase issue come from? Mis-alignment on the master deck again?

 

You're right. I have one, all white like an old bootleg album cover. You can still find them on ebay.