Michael Jackson Appreciation Thread (or why I think he's the greatest artist of the 20th century)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by QuintonBarnes, Jul 26, 2015.

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  1. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    But that's just wrong. You're misrepresenting history and you're not explaining yourself well at all. Perhaps you weren't around at the time. The song and video that really propelled Thriller's sales was "Billie Jean". That video (nor the famous Motown 25 performance from 1983) are not 'geared towards children'. What are your sources? I can't believe the idea you're perpetuating even exists.
     
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  2. Thom

    Thom Forum Resident

    Just one more piece of info for @stanlove, I don't know if you know this but just three of the Thriller hits had videos: "Billie Jean", "Beat It" and "Thriller" (and the "Thriller" video came out in late 1983, when the album had already sold ~30 million copies globally). "The Girl Is Mine", "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" and "P.Y.T." didn't have videos at all. So you can see that really, your statement that (quote) 'the staggering sales numbers from Thriller was because he geared his videos towards children' is just off on quite a few levels.
     
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  3. bob60

    bob60 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    Yes he already knows this as I pointed this out several posts back, but he did not respond!
     
    Thom likes this.
  4. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Michael Jackson used an available video outlet to promote his music? My gosh, better throw it all out . . .

    I think Elvis Presley and the Beatles likewise benefited from the mass audiences made possible by television. Toss 'em, too . . .
     
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  5. BD70

    BD70 Active Member

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    I think Michael is vastly overrated.
    Where he excelled was in the areas 'peripheral' to music-making itself, (rather than those intrinsic to making great music) - Dancing, choreography, showmanship etc.
    The case can be made that he was a great performer, however I personally prefer my favorite artists to *always* sing live. Lip synching is not part of the equation.
    When you strip away all the hype, what you are left with is an excellent singer who had 3 classic albums and a few ok ones, imo. I don't consider him a great singer because he simply doesn't have the vocal chops to compete with the very best. His main attributes in this respect I see as distinctiveness and versatility.
    Did he play any musical instruments at all?
    Not that I know of.
    Again, not a deal breaker. But we are talking great artists in *music* here, afterall, so *some* aptitude on an instrument or two atleast adds to one's credibility here I'd suggest.
    As a songwriter too, he is merely very good, not great. I don't buy the hype on that at all. The best of his songs are hardly the most profound lyrical offerings in the pop canon. They are standard repetitive dance fodder rendered greater through Quincy Jones' production magic. Not exactly any threat to The Beatles here.
    I don't mean to sound harsh. As I said, I just think he's overrated. That doesn't mean he's not an excellent artist. He is. I have all his albums, and his music certainly has its place in history. But personally, I don't consider him anywhere near the greatest artist ever. I'd rate him at between 50 to 100 on a list of the greatest ever solo artists. I think that's being fair.
     
  6. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    Don't forget his work with J5 and The Jacksons. Stellar material. :thumbsup:
     
  7. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Michael's entire output is a case of the really good stuff outshining the really bad (no pun intended) stuff. Jackson Five, Jacksons, solo Motown, and solo Epic all have great stuff throughout.
     
  8. BD70

    BD70 Active Member

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    It's all good music.
    Trouble is, he doesn't have enough of it to compete, imo.
    For instance,
    List, objectively as you can, all of his great songs..
    I'm thinking this is not going to go much beyond a double disc 'best of'.
    Now do the same for the likes of The Beatles, Dylan, Springsteen...
    See what I mean?
     
  9. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    List his best solo songs or the best J5/Jacksons songs? All three? Does demos and outtakes count?
     
  10. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    When I became a fan in 1987 I dove into his entire back catalog and was impressed by how good most of it was. If you're a casual fan you should pick up the "Hello World" Motown solo box set for some really good hidden gems.
     
  11. BD70

    BD70 Active Member

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    You have pretty much nailed it there.
     
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  12. BD70

    BD70 Active Member

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Solo is what counts.
    By my maths, he bottoms out around 40 maximum, whereas the likes of Dylan, Springsteen etc, have well over 100 great songs.
    And *greater* songs to boot.
    This is one of the differences between a merely excellent and a truly great artist.
     
  13. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    I love Michael Jackson but I can't say he is the greatest artist of the 20th century. Greatest pop artist? Probably. He never wrote any groundbreaking lyrics like a Joni, Dylan, or Lennon.
     
  14. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    But there is no such thing as objectively good or bad music. It's all based on personal tastes. There's 100+ songs that I deem great by Michael Jackson.
     
  15. Beaneydave

    Beaneydave Forum Resident

    If you can't be nice be quite , I'll say no more.




    Peace and love✌
     
  16. BD70

    BD70 Active Member

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Each to his own.
    My premise was 'trying' to be objective. Being realistic about an artist that has a few excellent albums versus others that have over a dozen.
     
  17. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    Ok, answer this. Does Kanye West deserve to be mentioned in the same group of greats as Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen?
    Every album he has released since his debut in 2004 has been universally acclaimed and influenced a generation of modern artists as well as older artists.
    He's relatively new to the music scene but he writes,produces,composes his own music as well as music for others, and his golden streak hasn't ended.
    How many masterpieces or (as you say) "excellent" albums does one need to be eligible for membership of this illustrious group? So far he has 6.
     
  18. BD70

    BD70 Active Member

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    No magic number.
    Just more than a few that's all.
    Who is acclaiming Kanye? Other great artists? Or pen pushers for a magazine?
     
  19. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    Both. Including one of your favorites...

    Ann Powers: I wonder if at some point in your listening, because I know that you listen to everything and one of the things I treasured about your South By Southwest talk that you gave was how you erase genre and you said, "We should embrace everything that sounds right to our ears," and I wondered if hip-hop was something at some point that kind of, the light went on for you and you got it or how does that work in relationship to you?

    Bruce Springsteen: Well it was so present, you know. At one moment particularly you had "White Lines" and this was stuff that was talking about what was going on in the streets and in the inner cities with people who were struggling. And that was something that, I mean, I had my own context for that, you know, that I wrote about it in my own way. But it was the music that came along and gave voice to those things outside of what was then considered a protest music context, you know, and did so really beautifully. And so, you know, I'm not well-versed in it but I have listened over the years. You know, Public Enemy, Notorious B.I.G., I listened to Tupac, I listen to Kanye West. Kanye West is incredible, you know. I mean, the record-making facility, you know, there's a lot of hours in those records and they're ...

    Ann Powers: He's a perfectionist like you.

    Bruce Springsteen: I mean some of these, there's like, just the production. And I saw him on television, he did the song called "Blood on the Leaves" on the Later...With Jools Holland — it was fantastic, you know. He's a very, I still find him very interesting. I'm not necessarily driving [to] it in my car, you know. I probably fall back on the stuff that I listened to as a kid or something if I'm driving around. But I do listen. I listen to a lot because there's a lot of information in it and it's just fascinating record-making.

    http://www.complex.com/music/2014/01/bruce-springsteen-says-kanye-west-is-incredible
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
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  20. Favre508

    Favre508 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    this nails it right here.
     
  21. BD70

    BD70 Active Member

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    So your a Kanye fan?
    Good for you.
    And you think MJ belongs amongst the very greatest -not just the most popular- of artists?
    Good for you.
    I don't. And I'm not really interested in what isolated artists have to say on the matter, -Bruce is notoriously diplomatic btw, but you might want to check his opinions on the likes of Elvis, Orbison and Dylan, to get a better reference point here..-when the general consensus amongst the very greatest of artists is what matters most.
    No doubt Justin Timberlake and Madonna have nice things to say about MJ too?
    But these aren't artists I respect that much.
     
  22. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    It doesn't matter if you respect or listen to them, that doesn't change the fact that he's influential and respected by other musicians.
    I'm sorry but there's nothing you can say that can change that. If we're going by your criteria then Kanye is just as much of a "great artist" as Bruce and Bob Dylan.
     
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  23. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    Listening to Prince a lot these days (so what's new Jim?) and even though Michael shifted a great quantity of records and was altogether wonderfully awesome, it's evident that Mr. Nelson walks all over him as an "artist" (if that is the subject).
    A master songwriter/singer/producer/arranger/dancer/guitarist/keyboard player/drummer/bassist/group leader... Michael never matched that. In fact I don't think any other artist of the 20th century compares to Prince on that score.
     
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  24. BD70

    BD70 Active Member

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    In your dreams, maybe.
     
  25. JohnnyQuest

    JohnnyQuest Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paradise
    C'mon Jim! You're better than this. This is a appreciation thread not a depreciation thread. Us as Prince fans always feel the need to put Michael Jackson down (myself included, in the outside world) because Prince is largely viewed by the general public as a poor man's Michael Jackson but we (music nerds) already know that to be completely untrue and we also know who's the most talented of the two. (*cough cough* Prince)
    That still doesn't make it right to diss MJ just to big up Prince. They're both amazing Pop stars that shined the brightest in the 80's and left footprints in our hearts. :love: I can't and won't choose between the two.
     
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