Mick Taylor vs. Ronnie Wood

Sorry, but I have two words to say in response to the above: Charlie Watts...

 

For my first post here, and am very glad to have found this place...

I think the context of when Taylor joined the band supports the view that Taylor is also the more signficant member to Wood, in addition to being the better guitarist.

This begins more as a comparison of Jones to Taylor, and Jones early on was an excellent slide player. He more than anyone else gave them that deep blues sound, Keith being more the Chuck Berry oriented player. And to Jones's credit he added his multi-instrumental talents, which contributions were not limited to the studio work. But it was not merely a matter of Jones's fading, both in influence and health, that was going on when he was fired. I think the Stones looked at relatively newer bands like Cream and Hendrix, along with the newer blues rock bands from Jeff Beck's Truth effort, Ten Years After, Savoy Brown, and felt they needed to add someone who could play a real lead guitar. This would complement Richards's more rhythm based style.

And it did.

The related factor is the Stones wanted to have a more live music feel compared to such studio based sounds as are found on Between the Buttons. They wanted a stripped down sound that would at the same time fill up the huge arenas they played in the 69 tour. Which they did - not even Nicky Hopkins, as was there on Rock and Roll Circus, or later with Bobby Keys and Jim Price in 72. Yep, they made that huge leap, with fans actually hearing them, by doing one thing - they added Mick Taylor. And it worked.

That set the template for all that followed, them adding other musicians on stage notwithstanding. The Stones in 68 had put out the great Beggar's Banquet, but their rep as a great live band was a bit moldy due to their drug trials and not touring. I get the impression Keith and Mick simply did not have confidence that Jones could hold up his end on a big tour. Adding Taylor, and the result was instantly successful, and brought them right back as a great live band.

And yes I also think Taylor had great tone, great phrasing, and could play a variety of styles while stickin to a basic blues sound with the best. Ftr one of my favorite solos of his is from the Mayall effort Bare Wires, the song I Started Walking. Check it out if you are not familiar.

 

Some good for nothing woodpecker has brought Taylor's percentage back under the 80% mark again. Who's the dirty and obviously hearing impaired rat?

 

It's a nice 'what if' to ponder, but it's a tantalising thought to imagine how different the '69 tour might have sounded if he had stayed in the band and toured (I realise he wasn't able to). We don't really have good quality live recordings of his guitar playing. I can't imagine them being quite so heavy (which they've never come close to before or since), but it would be fascinating. PA systems and everything.

Yep, I get that Jagger had been burnt royally by Klein, and no doubt a high level of financial paranoia had set in. But considering how much Taylor brought to the band, how much the two of them got along (by all accounts, very, very well the bulk of the time), and how little trouble he caused it's hard to defend Jagger's greed. Taylor seems to have been universally liked by just about everyone so I can't imagine it was his personality.

 

Yeah, that one's an absolute ball-tearer. When he was about 19 too. He said himself the Stones brought out the best of him, he was pretty damn good to begin with.

 

Exactly, and he is not "The Stones" either. Just because he is by far the most talented guy to ever be in the band doesn't make him the poster child for the band. Like I say, The Stones is a band, not a dude.

 

I still get a kick out of a recent interview where Taylor said he actually like the Beatles better!

 

I agree with the thrust of what you're saying, but let me add this. Someone very close to me is a member of a symphony orchestra. She loves the Stones (and many other rockers to boot) even though with her advanced training and ear, she can spot the less-than-perfect moments (notes and pitches) a mile away when it comes to the music, especially in regards to the singing. But it doesn't stop her from enjoying it - in fact, a lot! she's hip

Parenthetically, some symphony musicians are like her with their open-mindedness for non-classical pieces and genres, and some are not. Prudes and snobs exist in every walk of life, as most of us quickly come to discover, and that's certainly no different in the fine arts.

 

Fixed.

 

Interesting take, and excellent first post. Too bad Brian burned himself to a cinder like he did. Would have been interesting to see where he may have stretched things to had he been more willing and able in the end. But I like your assessment that the other principals were ready for a change regardless.

[Warning! Conspiracy Addendum: Did they in fact engineer it?]

A few tips to the newly initiated. Watch for wooden trees of life falling on you when you least expect them. Anyone nicknamed rocky (or any conceivable variant thereof) is woodier than that name might otherwise suggest in this stretch of the woods (but he's fine most elsewhere). Any free man who carries wooden sticks sometimes plays 'em too loud, especially in this thread. Other than that, welcome aboard!

 

Love 'em both, but I'm partial to Taylor.

 

Weren't you here earlier when Glyn Johns informed us that he was, in reality, a "raving egomaniac junkie”?

Mick "Badass" Taylor

 

Musically Taylor would help define possibly the greatest run of rock n roll albums ever. So that's +1. However, Wood fitted better for the post 78' tours, i.e. stadiums and arenas from 81' onwards.

Ok, Taylor was only on a few songs from Let It Bleed, but you have to add in Ya Ya's and GHS

 

Agreed. And I think the 78 tour as well - the shows that I've seen and heard from that year were more stripped down than 75, which suits Ronnie's style IMO.

 

There, fixed it for ya!

 

Amen, brother

 

I don't want to make too much of the Stones' performance in Rock and Roll Circus, which was not long before Jones left and then died, about six months I think. But we generally did not have the awareness from that performance, until it was released, of showing how little Jones was doing in terms of the overall group's sound. He had a tasteful but not particularly proficient slide solo on No Expectations, but slide was always his thing. The other songs seem to have been chosen for their being suitable for relying on Keith pretty much on his own, and of course Nicky Hopkins, too.

While I love the job they do on Jumping Jack Flash, and somewhat less on Can't Always Get What You Want, they had to have been comparing the Dirty Mac performance with a very workmanlike solo from Clapton, behind Lennon's Yer Blues. "Man, we need something like that, not just Brian standing there looking like he's about to fall over!"

And ftr I have tremendous respect for the contributions Jones in fact made to the Stones. But heading out on tour? Taylor gave them the ability to do that.

And thanks for the warning, but i think I'll be okay.

 

Vandalized.

 

The Montsalvat interview with Mick before the gigs at Kooyong in Melbourne in February 1973. Already hinting that the Stones would probably not be long term for him.
Was fortunate enough to attend the Sunday afternoon gig on a very hot day.

 

I agree Brian Jones is one of my favorite musicians. In the beginning it was Jones that put the Stones second only to the Beatles. Taylor made them able to tour and compete in 1969. You needed a lead guitarist that could fill the stadiums and Taylor's playing sure did that. Taylor was a awesome talent his tenure in the Stones was way to short!

 

Fair point but Charlie seems a little dismissive about his own playing in the Stones never mind that of others. Rightly or wrongly I tend to get the impression that he views his talents as somewhat wasted playing that style of music.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Stones but just think that their greatness is all about the "roll" and the songs rather than about any great musicianship.

 

I disagree first off Charlie and Bill are one of the tightest rhythm sections in rock. Charlie is one hell of a drummer, there are so many songs where his drumming
makes the song and you remember Charlie's patterns. Bill Wyman is one of the top ten bass players in the world and has a wonderful style. We already know Mick Taylor is a incredible guitar player since he was 15 he was already world class talent. Brian Jones is a multi-instrumentalist genius. Mick Jagger is a world class vocalist. And Keith is a awesome rhythm guitarist and riff master. And Jagger Richards are great songwriters. There all Rock & Roll royalty!

 

Fuhgettaboutit!

Gettoutahere!

 

The jam ending of Can't You Hear Me Knocking has a lot of similarities to the Paul Butterfield Blues Band's song "East West". Maybe they should have got some credit as well?