Miles Davis - The Definitive Bootleg Series Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Ron Stone

    Ron Stone Offending Member

    Location:
    Deep Maryland
    Look for the four-disc set from the En Concert Avec Europe1 series, featuring a purple banner reading "Pour Ceux Qui Aiment Le Jazz" across the top. It was a legitimate release on the French Universal label. It's hard to find but, strangely enough, can be had for reasonable prices when located.

    This set features the 1960 Olympia concerts with John Coltrane and Sonny Stitt. The first disc is remarkable, as the crowd whistles (boo's) Coltrane during his solo. The sound is solid, not bootleg dodgy at all.

    Then there's the four-disc set from Dragon featuring the Stockholm concerts with Coltrane and Stitt, also a legitimate release with solid sound.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
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  2. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    1971 is next chronologically, as the Bootleg Series has gone (excluding the Newport themed set), but also not drastically different from the 1970 Fillmore set, either, in terms of set or style. Still, I'd welcome it, but I'd also welcome a stylistic departure.
     
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  3. mw1917

    mw1917 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albany, NY USA
    There have been rumors about a 1975 box for years; I really hope it comes to fruition. The only Bootleg Series I can see avoiding is anything from the '80s (and I suspect the estate knows most Miles fans aren't exactly clamoring for releases from this era).
     
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  4. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    And Sony doesn't lay claim to much during that decade.
     
  5. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Forum Resident

    Yeah, and if the Montreaux box didn't give you enough 80's MD, I don't know what would.

    I would love to have the '73 Montreaux show included in a future BS volume, as that was the only show from massive collection I was interested to hear.
     
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  6. pbuzby

    pbuzby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    In my opinion fall 71 was different from the Fillmore due to Chick Corea being out and Michael Henderson replacing Dave Holland, with most of the avant garde element gone as a result. It was very similar to the Cellar Door set, though.
     
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  7. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    I had the Montreux box but sold it; except for the first 2 discs the material is from the 1980s right until the end and those are not my favourite Miles years.
     
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  8. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    That's true. Keith Jarrett and Michael Henderson do have an outsize influence on the sound of that late 70, 71 band.
     
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  9. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    Regarding the possibility of a '75 box, I'm not sure if those rumours may just be wishful thinking. I've never heard of any evidence that, aside from Tokyo 22 Jan, there are any professional recordings from that year. The inclusion of the bootleg quality stage recording from New York 75 on the Newport box would seem to confirm this.

    I'd love to be proved wrong of course.
     
  10. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    There are currently three expansive boxes on the market covering Miles' 1960 shows with both Coltrane (spring) and Stitt (autumn) in a particular city/country:

    "Live In Paris 1960" 4CD: Olympia Theater, Paris, March 21 + October 11, 1960
    "In Stockholm 1960 Complete" 4CD: Konserthuset, Stockholm, March 22 + October 13, 1960
    "Complete 1960 Holland Concerts" 3CD: Kurhaus, Scheveningen & Concertgebouw, Amsterdam, April 9 + October 15, 1960

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Could anyone familiar with these recordings recommend the best option, sound and performance quality-wise, out of these three sets?
     
  11. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Of these concerts, I listen to the Stockholm set more often. It's official (not sure about either of the other two). Sound is very good for its time.
     
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  12. pbuzby

    pbuzby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    The Paris set has fine sound and aside from the historic Coltrane solos (mentioned by others earlier in the thread) it is interesting to hear Miles with the older fashioned Bird-style sax playing of Stitt in the October concerts.
     
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  13. JETman

    JETman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knowing
    Original version of the Paris shows, which someone mentioned above:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The sound on it is good. When I snagged it (early to mid 90s), it was difficult to find and quite expensive for a 4 CD set. As to whether or not it is "legal", I sincerely doubt it (especially given the problems with the quite professional looking INA/Isoldun live French releases). For an example of what those look like, see here:

    [​IMG]

    This too sounded quite good, but was completely illegal.
     
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  14. Ron Stone

    Ron Stone Offending Member

    Location:
    Deep Maryland
    Isn't the Trema label -- on which these En Concert Avec Europe1 series discs appear -- owned by Universal? Or is that not the Universal I'm familiar with?

    Either way, this four-disc set would be my first recommendation, followed by the Dragon set.
     
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  15. JETman

    JETman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knowing
    It wasn't owned by a major back in the formative years. If the Davis estate was not compensated (and I doubt it was), all of these radio broadcasts being released on CD are illegal. Do not be fooled. Tower, an above board enterprise in everybody's eyes, regularly sold pirated material in the US. Does that make the act legal? Amazon does it as well. These are just examples of reputable businesses performing unlawful acts. This happens all the time, and it doesn't make it right. The trick is to avoid connecting one with the other in a way that makes it seem legitimate. Judging by what I see in human behavior, this happens all too rarely.
     
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  16. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    What does not happen rarely is people like you making overly broad statements on matters they have very little understanding of.

    It is well known and it has been for decades that the Dragon-Stockholm set is perfectly legal. Legality is not defined by the question if "the Davis estate was compensated", but by the question if the contract singed by Miles Davis himself in 1960 allowed the rights holders to release these radio broadcasts on CD (or other media). It is common knowledge that this was indeed the case, so nothing here is illegal.

    As for the question if the other releases are legal or not, it may very well be that the rights issues are very similar to the Stockholm sets. If not, they happened more than 50 years ago and are in the public domain in Europe anyways. It does not concern me much if they are "illegal" in the United States. I leave that to you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
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  17. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    By the way, during the last years there have been many perfectly legal releases of radio broadcasts by major American jazzers from European labels. Music lovers should enjoy these releases not trash them.
     
  18. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    I have this title:

    [​IMG]

    and the rear cover shows:

    [​IMG]

    in the bottom right corner that distribution is handled by Sony Music.
     
  19. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    No pictures...
     
  20. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
  21. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Wouldn't that be 70 years since the extension of the EU copyright a few years ago?
     
  22. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

  23. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
  24. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Nope this happened in 2012 or around that time, when recordings from 1960 had already entered the public domain.
     
  25. JETman

    JETman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knowing
    What's significantly worse is your "broadbanding" everything I said to suit the overall legality of the laws in Europe. Whatever contract Miles may or may not have signed under duress and without time to seek the advice of proper legal counsel at the time those shows were performed and broadcast has little to no bearing on their underlying legality. Given that the France's Concert INA release I pictured above appeared on a legal release here in the United States without licensing fees having to be paid, clearly Isoldun had no right to release it, Euro copyright laws or not.

    Sp please, let's not turn this into "we have a right to anything and everything we want" debate. Entitlement looks good on exactly no one.
     
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