Miles Davis - The Definitive Bootleg Series Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    So, Nightswimmer is assuming that there's a contract that governs CD or other media release of these 1960 European radio broadcasts, and you're assuming that if there is a contract, it was made under duress and without legal counsel and therefore is void. Both assumptions are likely wrong. The truth of the matter is likely that it is perfectly legal to release, in Europe, a radio broadcast that was recorded and done in Europe, even before expiration of the 50-year copyright term, so long as the public broadcaster authorized the release. I'm not a lawyer in Europe, but that's my understanding. When this box set was legitimately released in Europe, in 1994, that copyright period had not yet expired, but it didn't matter, because the release was authorized and fully above board under applicable law.

    Now, whether that release that is lawful in Europe may be imported to and sold in the US lawfully, that's a separate issue, and I don't know.
     
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  2. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Except for recordings that hadn't yet been published/released at the time of the extension, if I remember correctly.
     
  3. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Forum Resident

    I know these Euro 1960 recordings are out there already, but I would gladly buy an official set from Sony, if only to lend support to the bootleg series, and have more stuff we may have not heard.

    Yes I had those '67 recordings already, but now I have no real reason to dig out those discs when I can listen to the BS set. I mean, I have a hard drive full of live recordings, but there are too many new and archival releases coming out for me to care about some 3rd generation FM recording.
     
  4. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Once recordings are in the public domain they cannot be copyrighted again. And secondly, no, protection for unreleased recordings is 50 years.

    That is my point above. Sony does not own the rights to these radio broadcasts.

    For Stockholm, the Dragon set is the official release. I had a hard time understanding this as well, but it is the truth.
     
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  5. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany

    In Germany, at least, it is not possible for a lable or a radio station to release a radio broadcast made in Germany without consent of the participating artists until the recording is 50 years and older. So the fact that all these releases of radio broadcasts made in Germany have been released after 50 or more years of being unreleased has likely to do with the fact that under the new European copyright law certain rights to unreleased recordings expire after 50 years. So the radio stations could release them:
    Serie WDR The Cologne Broadcasts ยป

    As for the Dragon set, the story seems to be different. For some reason it was released in the 1990s, maybe because Swedish copyright law allowed it. It is indeed possible that there was no contract at all involved, because there did not need to be.
     
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  6. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    I never said they could be copyrighted again.

    Sony did release "So What" from Miles' April 9, 1960 Scheveningen, Netherlands radio broadcast on the 2009 Kind of Blue Legacy 2CD-set, stating that it had been released previously in unauthorized form.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
  7. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    See, I don't know about that. It may be true - or not. Only a court could make a final decision, but US law is different from European law.

    All I know is this: The copyright of unreleased recordings expires in Europe after 50 years.

    Finally, I think it is a bit strange that customers care so much about these things. Now, if Miles Davis was some poor musician still alive today, I would take up his cause. But he has died a long time ago and I could not care less about his estate and the corporate interests here. I have tons of Columbia/Sony releases and some were quite expensive. But if some company puts out radio broadcasts that are perfectly legal here, I refuse to consider US law the only valid standard to measure their legality. I'll leave that to 500$/hour lawyers. I am just a music lover, buying stuff that is available.
     
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  8. CybrKhatru

    CybrKhatru Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It's probably already been discussed to death, but my dear friend Joel gave me Vol. 3 as a gift recently.
    I've listened to disc 1 so far.

    Oh. My. God. Wow....
     
  9. MonkeyLizard

    MonkeyLizard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Any word on a new volume?

    It seems like they've been releasing them a little over a year at a time, abou 14-16 months. Here's hoping for a September release!
     
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  10. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    I would like them to release some Columbia multitrack tapes again, not rehashed radio broadcasts. But Miles did complain that CBS were lazy about recording him live. Tough luck now, eh.
     
  11. Nightswimmer

    Nightswimmer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Now are you not grateful for these publicly funded European tv and radio stations?
     
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  12. Johan1880

    Johan1880 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    The tapes of the Kurhaus concert sound to me a lot better than the Columbia multitracks of the Blackhawk (Mosaic box) from 1961.
     
  13. George P

    George P Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    Can I ask which of the Bootleg Series released thus far feature studio performances?
     
  14. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Just Vol. 5. The first four are collections of live performances.
     
    George P likes this.
  15. PJayBe

    PJayBe Forum Resident

    Any news on Volume Six as yet?????
     
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  16. brew ziggins

    brew ziggins Forum Prisoner

    Location:
    The Village
    Golly I like that Pete Cosey fellow. Just sayin.
     
  17. Max2max

    Max2max New Member

    From Peter Losin

    Bootleg Series #6: Miles Davis and John Coltrane (September 2, 2017)

    The next installment in the Miles Davis Bootleg Series will be released in February 2018. I don't know the title, but it will contain the first three extant recordings from the Quintet's spring 1960 European tour with Norman Granz' Jazz at the Philharmonic: Paris, March 21, Stockholm, March 22, and Copenhagen, March 24.
     
  18. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Interesting! Thanks for posting.
     
  19. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Forum Resident

    Sounds great. Love this era of the Quintet.
     
  20. Max2max

    Max2max New Member

    Two recordings already available for ages in semi legit release in a correct sound, a very bad choice from Sony...
     
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  21. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    I knew we'd see a complaint in minutes!

    It's the bootleg series. . . which in my opinion would include previously bootlegged material, probably upgraded (been the case before). I'm happy to have them "officially" and in better sound (my guess).
     
  22. signothetimes53

    signothetimes53 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Burlington VT USA
    I already have these from their 'official' European label releases a decade or more ago....but I won't be able to resist buying the official Sony product. Hoping for improved sonics, a decent well-written booklet with photos from the shows, etc...
     
  23. George P

    George P Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    Is that the Kind Of Blue tour?
     
  24. Max2max

    Max2max New Member

    It's not that it's available in bootleg that bothers me (it's the goal of the series) but the fact that it's available in an official way (The Paris concert is available in my store !).
     
    GregK likes this.
  25. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Forum Resident

    Precisely. Imagine if Grateful Dead fans didn't buy their archival releases just because they have had pristine soundboards floating around for decades. I will happily buy every volume of this series.
     
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