Miles Davis - The Definitive Bootleg Series Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    This is a case where in the US many (involved with the estate or the label) may not consider these "official"--in the past I've only seen the Dragon material given that status here. I can definitely see why this has less allure for European collectors and many collectors elsewhere. . .but I think these still qualify for Sony/Columbia as "bootlegs'" to be legitimized.
     
  2. Max2max

    Max2max New Member

    Seen from that angle, you're right. I hope there'll be a gain in sound value.
     
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  3. scompton

    scompton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    IIRC, I've read in the past the the EU releases are from radio broadcasts and legitimately licensed from radio networks that own them. Is this not correct? Could these possibly be other recordings made by Columbia or owned by Sony?
     
  4. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    I don't know for certain but I got the impression when these were initially pulled from the shelves in the US in the 'nineties that the estate feels that if they are not compensated for Miles' participation then it's not an official release. So even IF (and that's an if if there ever was one) all these previous releases were properly leased from radio stations (though many I think used audience recordings from broadcast). . . the Miles Davis estate probably doesn't view them as legitimate. Add to this that Columbia has a long standing predilection to viewing a release "unofficial" unless they themselves have released it in the US. It's myopic, but they have perpetuated a false "on cd for the first time" on releases over and over again through the last few decades.

    Really I don't suspect this set to fly off the shelves and wonder why they are releasing these now rather than waiting and putting out material more "desirable" for collectors. . . but I'll pick up a set, happily. This is great music and I'd rather it be collected under a Columbia banner than the several collections we have now in little clamshell boxes. I suspect we'll get sound as good as it can be hopefully from the source tapes, and nice notes.
     
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  5. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    No chance, no.
     
  6. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Does anyone know if that Coltrane interview will be kept in this latest volume? I tried obtaining a copy of the Dragon CD but came up short, and part of the draw was that interview. Hope it remains...
     
  7. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    I don't think anyone has yet found a track listing. . . personally I find it hard to predict whether it will be included or not. . . .
     
  8. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Yep, could go either way. I could definitely see it not being included...we'll see!
     
  9. DaveinMA

    DaveinMA Forum Resident

  10. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    This was posted by Peter Losin on a Miles forum/group I am a member of:

    'Apparently they uncovered a new analog master of the Copenhagen show that will be used for this set, and the Stockholm set will include a Norman Granz stage introduction that has not been included in previous releases of the Stockholm show. But those are the only novelties as far as I know.'
     
  11. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Well, the Tax and Dragon releases did, but Losin said at that time he had not seen the track listing, and just because it was included on the earlier releases does not, to me, indicate it will be on this release.
     
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  12. DaveinMA

    DaveinMA Forum Resident

    Where could I find that forum/group?
     
  13. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Thanks for sharing!
     
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  14. subtr

    subtr Forum Resident

    It's the Miles List from years ago. Have a look on google groups and search for Miles Davis List, and I believe you have to request to join.
     
  15. DaveinMA

    DaveinMA Forum Resident

    Ah!
    Here it is: Google Groups

    Thanks
     
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  16. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    I have a single CD version of the 1960 recordings of dubious lineage. I'll be very happy to hear what Sony will offer.

    Would have preferred Japan '75, but maybe next time.
     
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  17. Mr. Explorer

    Mr. Explorer Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    A Complete Japan Live 1975 is the set I've been dreaming would happen since before they ever started the bootleg series.
     
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  18. Ron Stone

    Ron Stone Offending Member

    Location:
    Deep Maryland
    Yes, and that tour has been pretty well documented on legal European releases, often pairing an initial show with John Coltrane and then a return engagement after Sonny Stitt replaced him. The Dragon set of Stockholm concerts has been available for decades.

    As above, the Paris, Stockholm and Amsterdam concerts have been released in very good sound and because they were legal releases drawn from radio tapes, I don't know how much improvement can be wrought by Sony's engineers. Other concerts from this tour have not been excavated in good sound, particularly the German engagements.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  19. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    I sure wish we had a definitive statement on the legality of these recordings in previous releases in the US. I know they are legal by European standards, or assume so. But only the Dragon combined Coltrane/Stitt set has been legally for sale in the US previously to my knowledge, and I had been told early in this century that this was because the estate had received further compensation.

    I get the feeling that the estate and Sony don't recognize the legitimacy in this market of the Paris and Copenhagen recordings--even though they are for sale here and there (and nearly everywhere). Recordings technically legal in Europe and not in the US can be bought easily in the US, so I'm not sure what any hoopla from the estate or Sony is about, but if this Bootleg Series inclusion is a way for the estate to make some money from them and then be open to further Bootleg Series releases. . . I'm supporting it.
     
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  20. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    that would of course be great, but as has often been mentioned upthread there is no evidence of anything releasable from Japan 75 other than Tokyo 22 Jan.
     
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  21. Lonson

    Lonson Don't get around much anymore Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chardon, Ohio
    Still, would be nice to have the three dates all together, remastered, under one roof, with information and photos. May never happen. . . but it would be a great set.
     
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  22. I've had that Dragon Stockholm set on CD since 1991! (including the later 1960 date with Sonny Stitt) -- which is over half my lifetime!! But Paris and Copenhagen will both be new for me (somehow I've never stumbled on either one, in all these years).

    That said, I'm a lot less enthusiastic about 1960's-era Miles (even with Trane), than I would have been anything else (new) from the late 60's or 1970's. I'm sure I'll pick this up, if the price is right (and they seem to be pricing these reasonably).

    In fact, of the two Stockholm shows, I actually really prefer the one with Stitt(!) -- as Miles' playing is a LOT more aggressive (than the earlier date with Trane) -- since Miles is having to compensate for Trane not being in the band. So if anything, I'd almost be as interested in more (other) Miles/Stitt dates (beyond Stockholm), as I would have been more Miles/Trane dates (which I realize are probably more in demand and arguably historical, especially Paris, from all I've heard about it over the years - and the audience's reaction to Trane's outside-leaning playing).

    I guess I'm just glad the series isn't dead yet, though I'm always amazed when further volumes seem to surface -- the last one especially (being all studio-oriented). I'm a little on the fence about the rehearsal/recording sequences of the last set (which require a LOT more direct concentration to really enjoy). Never the less, more unissued studio Miles cannot be unwelcome. Nor live either, in practically any case I can think of.
     
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