Miles Davis: Which versions of Agharta and Pangaea are on the new Japanese Blu-Spec?

New Blu-Spec editions of various albums are out on the 18th... including Agharta and Pangaea.

My Japanese is non-existent. Anyone know which versions of the albums are on these discs? The '06 remasters which match the original LP's, the extended-but-different-sounding 2000 masters, or even a new version?

I don't care about the Blu-Spec part (don't believe the hype) but it would be nice to get the '06 remasters for real (I've heard them but don't own them).

So, is there any info out there yet, or do I have to wait for some rich person to go buy them to find out?

 

what is Blu-Spec? Another format that makes my CD player, DVD player and SACD players obsolete?

 

According to CD Japan, the whole series uses the '06 masterings:

Reissue from Miles Davis featuring the high-fidelity Blu-spec CD format (compatible with standard CD players) and 2006 digital remastering. Part of a fifteen-album Miles Davis Blu-spec CD reissue series featuring the albums "Miles Ahead," "Milestones," "Sketches Of Spain," "Four & More," "Miles In Tokyo," "E.S.P.," "Miles Smiles," "In A Silent Way," "A Tribute To Jack Johnson," "Miles Davis At Fillmore: Live At The Fillmore East," "Live-Evil," "Get Up With It," "Agharta," "Pangaea," and "You're Under Arrest."

 

Are these the same as the DSD remasters?

 

How can I tell which ones I have? Since I do not know anything about these titles, I do not know if my copies are just like the original albums or are they different. Mine are:

AGHARTA, SRCS 9720-1

PANGAEA, SRCS 9752-3

I would reaaly like to know more about these discs.

 

If the advert refers to "2006 digital remastering", I believe these are likely to be the same mastering as the mini-LP cds that came out in 2006. Those had different mastering to SRCS 9720-1 and SRCS 9752-3.

See "The Original Jacket Collection" on this page:

http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Mastersound.html

Note that Losin does not indicate whether the 2006 version of Pangaea was DSD mastered.

I'd have to do a search, but I seem to recall that for Agharta, the shorter master was used in the 2006 remastering rather than the one used for SRCS 9720-1, which contained "bonus music" (actually sound effects, for the most part).

 

They apparently play on your normal CD player.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=165059&highlight=blu-spec

 

I've covered this before on another thread, but the limited 06 DSD's replicate the original LPs in that they are the shorter, LP mixes. Also, they found the original engineer and had him supervise the remaster so it sounds the closest to the original Japanese LP's as possible (lots of reverb).

All other Japanese editions are the full concerts and were mastered in 99 or 2000, I think. They have a significant amount of extra material in them. (Whether you think this actually adds anything to the originals is another matter)

Agharta is a whole 10 minutes longer, whiles Pangaea has about 2.5 minutes extra.

 

OK, here's what I wanna know:

Are the '06 versions substantially different from the previous CD versions? I have the SRCS-91... issues of both, and find the mixes to be OK. But I've never heard the original mixes. I could swear I've read that the original LP mixes are denser and more powerful. I think I read something to that effect on this forum, but I couldn't find anything like that when I did a recent search. I don't think that more reverb would be enough for me to buy these new ones. But if the mixes are in fact stronger overall, that might be worth considering.

 

I haven't heard the '06 versions. However, I would guess that they are superior to at least one previous cd version of each title, which are the Columbia Legacy discs (Agharta Columbia Legacy C2K 46799, Pangaea Columbia Legacy C2K 46115) that are commonly available (and that don't hold a candle to the Japanese SRCS... issues).

 

If you have a version that sounds good to you, I would stick with it. Looking for the perfect version of these is like searching for the Holy Grail.

 

Though I would be very happy to have a properly-mastered issue of the 22 January 1975 Tokyo show...

 

I have the 2006 DSD remasters, but I can not tell you anything about the mix because this is the only version that I have ever heard, (check my catalouge number on my previous post). I can tell you that I like them very much, they sound real good irregardless of the very, very, very bad visual representations of the sound.

 

The Mastersounds are an accurate reflection of how the shows would have sounded, being (a) complete and (b) mixed direct from the tapes.

The '06 versions are as accurate a reflection of the original 70's LPs as are available at present. The shows are cut and there is plenty of extra reverb added.

When I last compared, they sounded pretty different to my ears. I preferred the '06 masters but didn't get copies before they went out of print, hence wanting these versions if they are those masters.

So... you can have the concerts as they sounded OR as Miles wanted them to sound on record. Bear in mind he had, in the past, excised whole solos from live records, so what he wanted may not be what you want to hear!

 

Thank you, this is the kind of information that I asked for earlier in the thread.

 

I realize you might not be able to answer this since you seem to be going on memory, but is there any chance you can recall, other than the reverb, in what way(s) the '06 master sounded different? If it's six of one, half dozen of another, then I'm content enough with the Mastersounds. But if they sound... meaner, to use a description I think I read somewhere, then I really think I want to investigate!

I hope I can find this out before the new ones go out of print!

I usually agree with this line of thinking. But in this case, I wouldn't quite consider it looking for a Holy Grail, as much as being curious to hear a different presentation of the music which seems like a potentially interesting alternate musical view. On the other hand, I don't want to pay for two double Japanese CD sets unless I can be sure that I really read what I thought I did about these awhile back.

 

The best I can tell you is that the Mastersounds sound like every bootleg of a '75 concert I've ever heard (only better, obviously), whereas the DSD's have a different balance to them entirely. The bass is much meatier, the reverb makes a big impact, yet all the instruments are clear in the mix. 'Meaner' is a good description.

Also, the trimming of material makes the albums more focused. Pangaea less so, since the missing two minutes effectively remove just crowd noise and tuning, but on Agharta, there's about a minute cut from the start so you go straight into the music, and then you lose around 8 minutes of drift into entropy at the end. I quite like that drift in the full concerts, when I'm in the right mood, but when all's said and done, I prefer the DSD's.

If you're still not convinced, have a look here. It seems that COlumbia/Legacy are considering releasing a decent version of these albums in the west. As for when, who knows?

 

That's just a link to an open forum, it has nothing to do with what Sony is actually considering.

 

...I don't think Sony have made it very clear exactly what benefits these discs offer. Due to this vagueness the discs are being called "b-s" discs - I'll leave you to to make your own conclusions from the use of this acronym.

 

Sorry - I was under impression the 'Under Review' tag next to the title meant Legacy were reviewing it? Some of the other suggestions have been tagged as 'Planned' or 'Completed.' Apologies if I gave out false information

 

I just got my Blu-Spec versions of these albums and they are definitely from the 2006 DSD masters (since it indicates so on the obi).

Since I only have the original CDs of these albums, I believe released in 1990 or 1991 - I guess they should sound different?? My original CDs are:

Pangaea: C2K 46115

Agharta: C2K 46799

Are the mixes on my original CDs as indicated above the same as those I just received on Blu-Spec CD? I don't have the energy to compare them that closely when I open and listen to the Blu-Spec CDs.

 

Mike, I'm certain it will be the newer mix, as those were updated since your original versions in Japan (but still not here in the US as of yet!)

 

So you are saying my original CDs are the newer mixes.. and the Blu-Spec CDs should be the original LP mixes?

 

Well, after wading through the above, now I'm confused too...you should be able to tell just based on the individual song tracking times.

Shorter times should = original LP versions

 

Neat.

I've got Agharta, but Pangaea has been impossible to find.

Anyone know if these will make their way to US retailers, or is this Japan mail order only?

Looking like $50-ish @ HMV, $45-ish @ CDJapan – any place cheaper?