[Comment referring to deleted posts excised by moderator] If these episodes have been found it's nice to see some of the BBC's shortsightedness undone. It's important to keep some of this stuff regardless of profitability because it's TV history. Without physical archives and original documents history is just hearsay.
Personally I am not an "Old" fan of the show, but anything announced in 2014 or years ahead (a 50 year old programme too!) it's been an exciting year for Dr. Who, crappy or cheap production values, whatever... I am grateful, yes grateful there are fans or folks who spents years (Restoration Team, detective work for missing films too!) Ok, so some of the newly found "Lost" episodes aren't announced yet, or maybe other "Lost" shows will turn up in these searchs. It's all good, awesome if you think about it. Thank you to everyone in this Thread sharing Positive info or words of encouragement!
This thread took a detour into varying critical assessments of the overall show's merits, which is probably a discussion best left for a separate thread. Numerous posts along those lines have been deleted. These things tend to happen as a thread approaches its first anniversary.
It wasn't short-sightedness; it was a financial necessity. VT was far too expensive not to use again; Equity rules also forbade (in many cases) repeats without large payments. Dr. Who fans have never considered themselves extremely lucky that so much of the show's past still exists; they prefer to loudly complain that anyone dared to wipe ANY of it.
Adding to that UK TV home-use license fees increased circa 1970 to reflect color TV which also added to the pressure of not needing to retain b&w video tape recordings. The public-at-large would have been potentially upset when the fees went up if the BBC were still broadcasting b&w episodes.
This is simply not true. While it is lamentable that any show was wiped, Phillip Morris' company has also recovered other television programs. If the rumors of thousands of film cans is true, many programs would owe a debt of gratitude to Phillip Morris, who is himself a "complaining Doctor Who fan"
While it was a matter of economics at the time, that doesn't mean it wasn't also short sighted. The cost of a video tape is fairly minor compared to the potential profit that those episodes could have earned through home video sales. Yes, there wasn't a market at the time for it, but there would be one day. That's why it was short sighted.
More like non-sighted. They simply could not conceive of any future use for these programs. It makes me pretty mad too, especially since this attitude justified the destruction of far more than just Dr. Who. But… Who hasn’t been guilty of not foreseeing the future? My life is riddled with decisions that lacked in foresight.
Hell they were doing it into the 70's. At that point they had to know stuff like Top of the Pops not only should be saved as archive of cultural heritage but also as a revenue source. Surely by then people had been talking about missing Beatle performances. It's one thing to keep wiping the evening news and childrens show, at that point though they had to know there was a licensing market for pop stars. I know someone was selling this type of stuff internationally at that point, not sure if the BBC ever did it but artists performance were being sold to shows in other countries. It's another example of the old school mindset being so entrenched that even when people realize it's a mistake they keep making the mistake just out of sheer stubbornness.
Shortsighted because they couldn't see into the future?. It wasn't just a matter of money, as has been stated many times; not every second of every TV and radio show ever transmitted by the BBC could be kept. Again, fans should be grateful for the huge amount that DOES exist, compared with many other TV and radio shows.
I think there are several reasons for the 'clearance' of the old days. There wasn't the thought that stuff would still have value in 10 or 40 years time. TV was disposable entertainment. Whether tape was pricey or not, it would still be viewed as a cost and one that was re-usable. Also storage would be pricey if they kept it all. What was the point of keeping all the old stuff when people didnt like too many repeats and...there was no way at the time for the average person to watch non-broadcast material. No video or DVD for lucrative after sales. The BBC only had in reality maybe 18 hours of programming a day to fill on two channels. Not like today when they have to go digging hard to find enough stuff to fill the several channels they have now. Basically a different attitude and the benefit of hindsight and all that... Plus remember we've lost probably far more good and worthy movies to poor storage, fire, misuse, dumpsters etc. than we have all the BBC episodes combined.
It is perfectly possible to be grateful for what does exist, and at the same time be angry that anything was destroyed. Stop treating it like it is an either/or situation.
Of course it's not either/or, but some people seem to take incomplete archives as a personal attack on their favourites without appreciating the practicalities of the period.
They weren't shortsighted because they could also see the (yet to arrive) future where they could extract the shows from the memories of those, both living and now dead as well as recapturing the original TV broadcast signals still ambiently floating in space.
For a really good read on why the BBC destroyed large parts of its archive I highly recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Wiped-Doctor-...d=1393968720&sr=1-1&keywords=doctor+who+wiped It also gives a ton of information on how Doctor Who episodes have been recovered, etc. Covers pretty much everything up to - but not including - the omnirumour. Note that the book does have its detractors but I really enjoyed it.
What makes me sick is that someone (I can't remember who, Steve Roberts, maybe?) confirmed at a convention recently that people's discussions about the episodes have actually delayed their release - as if the BBC or someone close to them is intentionally screwing with us and going "Oh, they mentioned Marco Polo again, delay it by a month." If that is true, that is INCREDIBLY unprofessional and juvenile.
I seriously doubt that is an issue, as I doubt that speculation into Morris's activities is really a risk to his personal safety (Especially after his recent interview, where he gave information about what regions he was working in).
I'd hope not. If I remember, a fan asked the panel if that was the case - someone flat out denied it, someone else (again, almost sure it was Steve) nodded.
What do people have to say against it? I've read the first edition (pre-Galaxy 4 and The Underwater Menace). I really enjoyed it as well.
No, it'd be all business / publicity strategy, legal matters and such. Marco Polo is probably my "most wanted" (and it'd sure be great having the 1st season intact). It's been a bitter irony that Marco Polo was by many times over the most likely to have survived yet there's nary a scrap. Mr. Morris is in legitimate business with broadcasters, archives etc, nothing to be secretive about in where he is when. Perhaps some are wary of someone trying to involve themselves, stalking Mr. Morris, bothering broadcasters or what have you. Did I see right that some people are thinking Mr. Morris/TIEA are "restoring" them on their own, planning to get BBC to buy them "restored"? How odd. Wouldn't work that way...
Indeed. It was possibly a concern late last year, when he might have still had some dealings going on in Africa, but now it's a meme they've all left in place as it conveniently allows self-designated minions in the fan community to police Missing Episode threads and squelch any and all talk, substantive and speculative. It's been a part of the Marco Polo rumour for a long time, that Phil Morris' in-house team worked on the restoration of that title, but only on repairing the film itself. Presumably, the film would undergo a digital transfer and further clean-up and prep for the dvd release by the regular team (the RT). It's perhaps the most divisive rumour of them all, as the self-appointed minions go into an apoplexy at the thought that the beloved RT are being insulted at this prospect, especially since the some rumours have had it that the first round of restoration would result in a version that could go straight to itunes (or the yet-to-be-announced BBC online store) and bypass the RT altogether (although they would still be running the show for the dvd release, and any value added material needed for it). Steve Roberts added fuel to the flames when he infamously ripped up a printed copy of the latest omnirumour at Gallifrey Base. He then went on to confusingly say that he believed Marco Polo and other titles to be back, but claimed complete ignorance. Even more confusingly he then read a statement from Phil Morris from a text message on his phone from the man. How can he claim total ignorance, and still claim the authority to declaim the omnirumour in its entirety, while going on to confirm his belief in parts of it, even as he reads a text message from the man who presumably has all these episodes in his possession? To me, he ratified the omnirumour with his paper-tearing stunt, even as he emboldened the minions to lock down the message boards with sychophantic drivel -- all in the name of muddying the waters of the rumour, and shut down all the talk. Why is this all seen as necessary, when a simple denial from the BBC would suffice? It's all very strange, and now, every time a new element in the rumour pops up, a countervailing rumour immediately rises up to squash it. But, this in itself begs the question -- why go to such lengths if the rumours are not true?
Ah, I see. These episodes would only exist as a 16mm telerecording film and nothing else at all, it's not like there are old video transfers they can dump online or onto DVDs to save money. They have to do a new modern transfer and mastering. For brand image the BBC won't likely issue them in any form without a decent (post transfer) restoration & mastering. There wouldn't be that kind of money in these for multiple transfers and restorations (some late stages of mastering may differ for different media of course). They'll probably just go with whoever did the prior finds (the "RT" I gather?). Unless they found virtually everything and they're going to issue them en masse, like in full season box sets redone from scratch. Then maybe they'd hire another outfit to do it. More likely, they'd reu$e existing transfers for previously issued episodes and have the usual suspects do the new finds.
Being short-sighted is, by definition, the inability to see events in the future that could reasonably be expected to occur...whether that future is 20 minues from now or 20 years from now. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that the BBC should have kept "every second" of every broadcast they made. But it would have been nice had they thought enough about certain programs (and I'm not just talking about Doctor Who) to consider saving them. (Doctor Who just has a better survival rate than most programs because it was sold so widely overseas.) For example, the BBC erased their coverage of man's first landing (and footsteps) on another world...one of the biggest stories from the 20th Century that will still be remembered 1000 years from now. Granted, it was an American achievement (and American broadcasts from the event still survive), but it was an historical moment for the entire human race. It was extremely short-sighted to think that some portions of that broadcast wouldn't be worthy of being re-broadcast in the future.
Are you talking about the special "What If It's Just Green Cheese"? That was the moon landing special where Pink Floyd played "Moonhead" - a song that only exists in *horrendous* quality from a cassette recording of that show.
