Doctor Who Episodes - Official News from The BBC*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by TheLazenby, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. MaestroDavros

    MaestroDavros Forum Resident

    Location:
    D.C. Metro Area
    Although I was unable to finish purchasing the releases in R1 before they started to put too many out of print, knowing their cost I can sympathize. That said if this is going to be a continuing series, it might be prudent to consider selling some of your collection to finance the Bluray's, but that's just me. You do what you feel most comfortable doing, even if that means keeping the DVD's and passing on the Bluray's

    I'm excited for this. I recently heard that a few of the possible impetus' for the Classic Series coming to Bluray now are 1. Classic Who home video sales outsell those for NuWho, as shocking as it may sound; 2. As part of the marketing campaign for the upcoming series the BBC has decided to roar back after a few years of neglect in the merchandising arena by focusing on uniting all eras of the show, and this unity concept is why the new logo is being used on the new Bluray instead of the Pertwee / McGann logo (Big Finish will most likely switch as well in the near future, although that still remains to be seen); and 3. People who are higher up at the BBC have been enthusiastically promoting this set on social media and through other means, so there is a confidence in Classic Who that has not been seen in sometime.

    Also Steve Roberts confirmed to me that intent for the R1 Bluray is for the episodes to be encoded at the frame rate of 60 FPS interlaced, not 24 FPS progressive, which means that the episodes will retain the fluid live videotape "look", which is great!
     
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  2. KevinP

    KevinP Forum introvert

    Location:
    Daejeon
    Somehow the news of discovery missed me, and it seems a lot of other fans, so I'm sharing it here.

     
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  3. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Thanks for sharing the news!


     
  4. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I'm confused. Are you talking about the 1960s 625 kinescoped episodes of Dr. Who? Blu-ray won't help them, because almost all of them are from 16mm prints (or negatives). There's not even enough resolution there for standard-def, because so much is lost in the kinescope process.

    If the films were shot at 25fps (which is normal for PAL), then a straight-across conversion to 59.94 NTSC would be fine, and everything would be extremely close to the right speed as originally broadcast. At 24fps -- or rather, at 23.976fps, which is the typical speed for North American film scans -- it'll be about 4% too slow.
     
  5. MaestroDavros

    MaestroDavros Forum Resident

    Location:
    D.C. Metro Area
    The first Bluray being released is of Tom Baker's 1st season. The DVD range didn't start releasing B&W serials until around 8 releases in, at least according to the UK release schedule. I assume the new series, if successful enough to reach that point, will follow a similar path.
    You are correct, most serials produced from "An Unearthly Child" til episode 2 of "The Enemy of The World" were produced in 405 line resolution, with them fully making the switch to 625 line resolution starting with Episode 3 of EOTW. That said, despite their inherent complications a Bluray release of the B&W serials could theoretically improve on the DVD's by A. Featuring official recons of the missing episodes, and B. Utilize the ever improving state of the art of film restoration.
    I apologize if I wasn't clear enough. The R1 Bluray's, like the R1 DVD's before them, will be presented at 60 (59.94) FPS, NOT 24 (23.976) FPS. The reason why the conformation of this is a good thing is because several recent R1 DVD releases (like "The Moonbase" and I believe the upcoming Shada as well) have been presented in 24FPS, not 60FPS so the non animated stuff looks too jerky, and as you said they have to slow down the footage to extend out the FPS. So them confirming 60FPS for the Bluray's is great, as it will be far less compromised.
     
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  6. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I don't buy it. I think it's silly.

    I don't have a problem with Blu-ray HD restorations of shows and films actually shot on motion picture film. I've actually done a lot of restoration work on kinescopes of American shows (including about 50 hours' worth of Your Show of Shows, which took six months of work), and believe me: there's nothing there. I've also done more recent shows like the first couple of scenes of The Avengers (also a British kinescope), and they were awful. Bad in SD, bad in HD, no better in 4K or 8K. There's nothing there to work with.
     
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  7. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    There's a simple principle at play here. You cannot add more information into a source than it already has. If the information content is low, than that's all she wrote.
     
  8. KevinP

    KevinP Forum introvert

    Location:
    Daejeon
    Like watching a black and white movie on a colour tv and expecting it to be in colour.
     
  9. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I will take watching or hearing material in substandard or even really poor condition over not having it at all. :)
     
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  10. The compression (and resulting artifacts) wasnt that great on some of the DVDs so this will be an improvement. Likewise, for the material shot after 1970 I’d expect improvement with the film inserts. Lossless audio too, and apparently some new 5.1 mixes.
     
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  11. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    If BBC is try to capitalize on "Classic" tv series now, it's interesting news. I'll take it if they are seriously investing in it on Blu-Ray boxsets!

     
  12. MaestroDavros

    MaestroDavros Forum Resident

    Location:
    D.C. Metro Area
    Oh no I believe you. Even the BBC, who I'd argue turned making kinescopes (or "telerecordings" as they'd call them) into a sort of art form, were limited by the process' inherent flaws. That said from a restoration point of view not all hope is lost. I'd highly, highly recommended reading the Doctor Who Restoration Team's articles on working on the DVD's, with a specific point of looking at the work done on the B&W serials. The processes involved and the attention to detail is astonishing: The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
     
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  13. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    If they have the original videotapes, then those could look significantly better. Still, SD doesn't uprez very well to HD.
     
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  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    My joke is, if you pour 5 gallons of water into a 10-gallon barrel, you don't really have any more water. Just a bigger container.
     
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  15. JQW

    JQW Forum Resident

    The original episodes would have been 405 line kinescopes, making them even worse. BBC1 (and ITV for that matter) didn't switch to 625 line operation until they began their colour service in late 1969.
     
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  16. MaestroDavros

    MaestroDavros Forum Resident

    Location:
    D.C. Metro Area
    Incorrect. The BBC made the switch on January 1st, 1968. As I stated above, Doctor Who in particular switched to 625 line operation with episode 3 of The Enemy of the World, which originally broadcast January 6, 1968. This is most likely why for years this was the only episode of the story kept in the BBC vaults, because of its historical significance.
     
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  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Whether it's 400 lines or 625 lines, if all they have left is a 16mm kinescope, it kinda doesn't matter. The 16mm is going to make the picture suck no matter what. A 16mm negative of HD will also look horrible.
     
  18. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    What this new Blu set has are 2" PAL video masters upscaled and presumably presented in 1080i so there are no audio issues.
     
  19. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Tom Baker Season 12 Boxset, yes?

     
  20. DeadParrot

    DeadParrot Forum Resident

    Location:
    MI, USA
    I seem to remember this was the belief until the missing episodes of The Enemy of the World were rediscovered, and subsequently returned to the BBC in 2013, at which point it was realized that the first 2 episodes were also 625 line recordings.
     
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  21. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    10-4
     
  22. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Just an update again on Tom Baker Boxset released in U.K. it's a very nice looking Digipak package. US release won't have it just plain blue Blu-Ray cases w/slip cover.


    Saw this video review shared on YouTube

    Apparently there's an Audio quality issue on second episode of "The Sontaran Experiment" (tinny like sound on 1 ep only)

    BBC has to get on it and offer Disc exchange on these new sets...
     
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  23. MaestroDavros

    MaestroDavros Forum Resident

    Location:
    D.C. Metro Area
    As the person who to my knowledge made the initial report of the audio fault I can confirm that yes, "The Sontaran Experiment" Part 1 has its feature audio screwed up. Mark Ayres (who does the fantastic audio restorations for Classic Who) confirmed that during the authoring process somehow the left channel of the dual mono track got inverted. It's the same style problem that a few episodes of the Star Trek: The Next Generation Season 1 Bluray suffered from (those did get a replacement program, but that's a CBS release). R1 is definitely confirmed to have it, R2 almost certainly will have it (the R2 sets got delayed yet again to July 9th, but some retailers are shipping it early and those R2 sets are confirmed to have the fault as well), and R4 shares the same encode with R2. There are also plenty of other mistakes, like one point of "Revenge of the Cybermen" having 17 seconds of subtitles missing and Michael Wisher's credit was misspelled on one of the episodes (haven't checked if it was in "Genesis of the Daleks" or "Revenge of the Cybermen" as he's in both) which was not a problem on the DVD version. I'll note that they have routinely redone the credits for the DVD's and are faithfully accurate to the original fonts and timing except sharper, but they usually were careful to avoid spelling mistakes. They've redone them again here but we weren't lucky I guess.

    This might sound like the set is a waste of time but as an overall package this couldn't be further from the truth. The upscale is actually quite good, the uncompressed audio is a great improvement, and most of the new bonus features are worthwhile additions. It's just a shame that quality control was almost nonexistent for this release in some areas, and thus could jeopardize the future of the range.

    Finally, while I recommend reaching out to BBCStudios (formerly BBC Worldwide) and politely file a complaint regarding the faults, the chances for a replacement program are unfortunately almost nil. They've never really cared too much about R1, and not many people actually bother to complain to the BBC anyway. Case in point, the R2 Shada DVD was heaven ily criticized for being presented in 16:9 pillarbox instead of 4:3 (only really affects CRT users) but only a grand total of 7 people actually contacted the BBC about it (I know that exact number because one of the Who range producers confirmed it) so guess what? No replacement program for the Shada DVD.

    Hopefully this Bluray has a better fate, because it deserves one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  24. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Excellent post MaestroDavros! Thanks for pinpointing the Audio issue and subtitles, and credit errors...wow, how can BBC drop it so far on revitalizing "The Classics" era to Blu-Ray box set collections?

    Kudos to Mark Ayres though on investigating further with Authoring production screwups. Hope there's an exchange on these disc/s in R1, R2 & R4 territories.

     
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  25. MaestroDavros

    MaestroDavros Forum Resident

    Location:
    D.C. Metro Area
    Yeah it boggles my mind, especially for something so high profile. Steve Roberts (one of the range's main producers) also deserves to be commended for looking into the issues as well, however it's sad that the team who puts these sets together care far more about the quality than the people who authored the set. Spelling errors are one thing, but missing subtitles and audio errors, both issues that only cropped in during the authoring phase, should have been noticed by someone. Oh well.
     
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