MM Cart suggestions for VPI Prime/Chinook?

No but it's easy on the Prime to do that so I will. Do you guys think the fact that it's not broken in is contributing substantially to the brightness? The MLX 150 was definitely not this bright. However, it does track well and it's certainly getting a lot out of the grooves! I may put the 150 back in just to compare, but it takes me so long to install a cart on the Prime!

 

Soundsmith is another besides Grado I was interested in. But that's due more to my liking the look, and that they seem to be everywhere as far as marketing. None of those are good reasons to buy one, so glad to see a recommendation. It's a shame there isn't a service where you could get three choices, audition them and then buy one from the batch. I don't feel right buying them on Amazon and returning them, just in case someone mentions it...hey, I've seen it mentioned before though I doubt many here would do that. It's the vendor who would get stuck and as a business owner I don't want to do that on a $1500 product. I'm a bit concerned you had a hum issue though as you said, it could simply be a mismatch with your table.

 

I have been running at 100 in general but I will play with it. I think 100 is recommended on the AT's.

 

And your suggestion wins! $500 off at Elusive Disc and free overnight shipping..I just ordered. I will let you guys know what I think. I loved the sound description so I guess we'll see. Thank you all.

 

I really did enjoy it with the MLX. My crime was thinking it wasn't "supposed' to sound good with a $400 cartridge. So I started the changing of the cartridge game, and hanging out here certainly encourages the upgrades! I just ordered the Soundstage, an $1800 cart recommended by someone with almost the same profile. My assumption is at that level, and after reading up on it, that I will truly hear a nice upgrade. And as you so rightfully said, I need to calm down and allow it to break in, and enjoy the music. Thanks for the post, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

 

Yes, I load mine at 1K.

 

I have the Prime Scout and a Chinook. I use a 2M Bronze. Love it

 

The Soundsmith is an excellent choice. Experiment w loading. Good luck- enjoy the music

 

I don't wish to open a can of worms with more troubleshooting steps but am wondering if you turned off all your breakers except for the one needed for playing your records and if so, if you still hear that relatively faint hum?

If not, the solution would be simple. If not, I can understand if you want to move on from spending your time troubleshooting this to death.

Hope you get a nice HOMC cart you enjoy more than the ART9 you weren't impressed with.

 

I hope you'll enjoy yours as much as I have mine. I'm tempted to try the MIMC Star while it is discounted. The Paua is a little out of reach after upgrading my line stage, amp, and cables.

 

Yes, 100 is recommended but 100pF. Unfortunately, this can be difficult to achieve depending on the capacitance of your phono cable/tonearm wire/phono pre. I have two older ATs - an AT20SS and a Signet TK-7LCa. When I first got them I was running them at about 250pF total capacitance and they always sounded a bit forward to me. I shortened my phono cable to get much closer to 100pF (I'm around 135 now). I am very happy now. The TK7LCa is a stunner with its Be cantilever and nude mounted diamond.

 

Reading your posts over the years I respect your opinion. I'm gun shy on Ortofon after my bad experience with the Black. I know it's a very polarizing cart....seems people love or hate it, no middle ground. I sure love the way they look on an arm though! I had sibilance issues, and I couldn't get it to track worth a darn on my previous Technics 1200. Now that I know how important it is to mount a cartridge perfectly, I'm assuming I was a big part of the problem, but still, a lot has been written about people having problems with the Black so that's why I didn't consider Ortofon.

 

You know I also respect your opinion, so feel free to open those cans any time...I appreciate you taking the time. I did not turn off my breakers...that's one suggestion that didn't occur to me, and no one mentioned it. You're right...that should be on any list of eliminating possible issues. I will do that! That buzz sound is all but completely gone; it's a low hum I'm hearing now, deep in the background and not audible enough enough during listening (unless turned up on the higher side of what I listen) to hear, but it's there when nothing is playing, barely. I know you tried to help me before and it is much better now than it was, but going back to an MC cart I'm afraid the gremlins are coming back!

 

You never know. For instance, one friend was experiencing some RFI which would only occur when using a SS phono preamp. When using a tube unit, no such issues occurred. Sometimes, the solution to these issues are quite strange.

Once, I wanted to buy an amp and it sounded great but was humming and buzzing quite a bit. Of course, I didn't buy it but 10 min into my trip back home, the seller called me and said he fixed it. I turned back and sure enough, everything sounded perfect. He had plugged it into his oven. His wife had reminded him the oven plug was a direct connection so there was nothing else in the chain which could create that problem, unlike the outlets he had tried throughout the house where the circuit was shared with other plugs, lights, and devices.

That's why I suggested the breaker idea. If there's something causing the hum to some degree, that might give you the ability to figure that out. If you're unfamiliar with the electrical layout of your home, you could try shutting breakers off until a single outlet is affected, then get an extension cord to your stereo and see if there's an improvement by plugging it into that independent outlet.

Lastly, if the issue only occurs when using the input for vinyl, it could be due to a bad/defective tube in the Chinook. If the hum is constantly there, even when listening to other sources, it could be a problem in either your power amp or preamp. Some defective caps might be in need of replacements. Just look at the amount of components inside your Krell.



The best situation would be to have extra separate components so they could be eliminated, one at a time, until you hit the problematic one. But if that isn't possible at the moment, give the above troubleshooting steps a shot. Most wouldn't take more than a few minutes. Hopefully, it'll help.

Hope you'll fall in love with your latest cart purchase. Let us know your thoughts once it's all set up!

 

I just loaded mine at the 50k provided by the MM input (for some reason Japanese amps seem to have 50k rather than 47k input resistance). So that may change the frequency response. I think it sounds fine at the loading I have it, but it is fairly bright.

 

I had a sibliance issue with the Red, but that is a known issue. Get a Bronze from somewhere with a liberal return policy, like Music Direct. It's a great cart

 

Mark Fremer sure liked that one. I probably should have grabbed that one but the other is on the way. Will be here tomorrow!

 

The request was for an "MM" cart recommendation.

 

Give a thought to Nagaoka 300.

 

Yes it was! I'm surprised I went outside of that. It looks like you have to go MC to really climb the chain, so I guess this will compell me to fix that hum, which folks here are encouraging me to do anyway.

 

Generally, the conventional wisdom says MC is a step up from MM. But not every MC is better than every MM. There are notable examples, and not that few of them. The higher end Nagaoka's being one of those. Here's a link to comparison of the lower-end Nagaoka 150 vs Hana EL, where the Hana seems to have lost decisively.



Also, here's a comparison of 9 carts by Fremer, where the Nagaoka 300 is reviewed very favorably:

Nine Cartridges Reviewed, Compared and File Identities Revealed!

with the following quote by him: "Its overall balance was among the most pleasing of any of these cartridges, regardless of price".

 

Hey guys! What a difference a few days can make, especially when you ask the kind folks around here for help! So, I went with the Soundsmith Zephyr III and it came today. With a trade it was all of $999. A bargain if you ask me! I installed it and listened to many very familiar songs all over the map. Carpenters, Bob Marley, Chris Rea, Jennifer Warnes, TLC (told you, all over the map trying all kinds of genres), James Taylor, Supertramp and some other common and familiar pop stuff.

First, may I thank eveyone for helping. Talk about the fast track! I have installed in the last 8 months in my Prime table an AT EV33 MC, an ART 9 MC, Ortofon Black, AT MLX 150 and the new SA that replaced it. This thread was created because the sa was killing my ears it was so bright! I found all the MCs to be unexciting. The 150 was the most fun.

It took me two and a half hours to mount each of all those other carts. I have now learned it doesn't have to take that long. I always wondered why on earth in this day and age they couldn't come up with a better way to mount these suckers. Soundsmith did. Geez, two screws and a screwdriver and you're in like flint! What a pleasure. No excuse to not mount it right dead on to that mounting point VPI supplies. I nailed it quickly all around, and clearly set it up perfectly the first time. Why can't all these companies do the same? Next, made the correct settings in my Chinook and seemed to nail that right away using the no nonsense spec sheet supplied by SS. In fact, it comes in a gorgeous wood box and the tracking recommendations are written in by hand! Neat.

A lot of talk about having to let a cartridge break in. My posts no doubt frustrated some seeing I am not into breaking in. I admittedly didn't allow any of them to break in properly. Life's too short and I don't have a lot of free time as I own two businesses. Right out of the box this cart is beautiful! Not fatiguing in the very least. I found I don't even have to turn it up as loud as the others to feel I'm listening loud enough. I don't know the science behind that, but that must be better on the ears. In that regard, the hum is all but gone but more because I only have to turn my Krell preamp to 1/4 instead of 1/2 to get it loud enough. I assume it's the Chinook settings that is sending more signal out to the Krell, and perhaps I could have played with that with other carts and achieved the same thing. Very pleased about that!

Sound comments....funny how you hear a bigger difference on some recordings than others. For the most part, it helped everything I listened to substantially. Much smoother sound, vocals sound more real to me, overall smooth warm and just a very nice pleasant sound, but at the same time very fun to listen to. Very "hi-fi" instead of just "good" which is how I would characterize the two Audio Technica MC's. They were competent but just no fun to listen to imo. They didn't really seem to do anything really well, they just kinda did their job if that makes sense. I'm trying to use different descriptions than the usual "bigger soundstage...blacker blanks" etc. But yes, much better and pronounced soundstage. ABBA'S Take a Chance On Me, from the new 1/2 speed Abbey Road master was a big improvement in that it isolated the far left and right track of the two guys singing during the intro much better than I've ever heard, which is what I mean't about this cart having a bigger effect on some songs than others. Seems the better the recording, the more the Soundsmith resolves everything. But on Marley's Exodus, there was little difference. But that was the exception meaning, I suppose, that Exodus is perhaps an easier song for a large array of cartridges to deal with.

So...I feel like, finally, I'm completely satisfied and done. I will put all those almost new carts up for sale here when I get a minute. I have no clue how the Zephyr will improve as it breaks in, but I'm already one happy camper so maybe the rest is frosting! I just can't imagine liking another $1000 cart this much, and I'm glad I wasn't stubborn and unwilling to try another MC. That's the great thing here...if you are willing to listen to people, you just might learn something. Thanks again guys, and of course a special thanks to those that mentioneD this cart and the fact that it was on sale. Anyone with a VPI that is looking for a reasonably priced upgrade, here you go! I would have gladly paid much more.

 

Oh man, we're gonna miss all your trials and travails while navigating the high end analog territories! But we're all happy for an audio story that ends well, congratulations on finding the one that makes you happy, we should all be so lucky. I've found my happy place with the Benz Micro Wood SL, at least for now, but I've got the feel some of the Soundsmith cartridges would get me there too

 

Glad you're happy with the end result!

Just a quick question. When you stated some previous MC carts sounded bright, did you play with the loading options? That will definitely have an impact on the sound.

 

The MLX150 is technically a remarkable cart, with boron cantilever and MicroLine stylus. If I were you, and already knew it sounded good with my Thiels (picky speakers, I have 4 pairs of various Thiels), I wouldn't experiment with ANY other MM cart, because there are none "better" and VERY few as "good". Just find a few replacement styli while they are still available. The price for them is going up rapidly now.

I am an Audio Note dealer and do not push equipment in this forum...... but the IQ3 is also a remarkable MM, with titanium cantilever and the Gyger stylus from AN's much more expensive moving coil models.

I am a fan of every piece of equipment you listed, but (particularly with Thiels) your level of sound quality does require very careful system matching. Its a good thing you like "bright", but your system is very susceptible to going too far that direction. You want resolution without too much agressive, forward character, right?