MM Cart suggestions for VPI Prime/Chinook?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jrr, Apr 10, 2018.

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  1. TheVU

    TheVU Forum Resident

    I have a EVO III, and not that I don’t like it, I’m likely not going to purchase another one or move up to the Blackbird.

    I want to hear the Denon sound again. Whether that’s a DL-110. Or somehow finding a NOS DL-160.
     
    Jrr likes this.
  2. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident Thread Starter

    The Benz was in the running. It's funny how if you are around here long enough, you remember a lot of what you read for later when you need the info. I have read nothing but good things about the Benz. Something struck me last night. I know we want, less or more, a cartridge that will present the music the way it was recorded. I used to own a recording studio back in the 90's for about three years (what a fun gig, but not a way to earn a living). So, I have an idea of what that should sound like. So, there is really only one way a song can sound if you are wanting that: like the master, or not! Yes, very over simplified but I think you get what I'm saying. So, there is not a lot of wiggle room, and most audiophiles, I would imagine, don't want anything too far off the ranch. Leading to this comment: I am assuming most good cartridges sound pretty darn similiar, and from there it is little subtle things that become subjective and different for each of us, hence the amazing selection of different types. I think what this forum does well, when folks describe what they like about their cartridge, is it points us in the right direction. I like the slightly bumped high end that I have found the Audio Technica line to offer, but something about what people were saying about the Soundsmith resonated with me. And the $999 certainly didn't hurt. The ART9 is about that price and it wasn't anywhere near the bump up in quality on my system that I found with the SS. Anyway, thank you all again.
     
  3. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident Thread Starter

    You know, to be fair I didn't. But I did use the settings recommended by the mfg in each case. I know you really try to dial it all in and I should spend more time doing so myself.
     
  4. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yes I do...you are completely right. I really appreciate your thoughts since you are familiar with a speaker that is almost 30 years old...I doubt too many here know much about those and I understand they radically changed the design not too long after I purchased them. I am really happy to hear about the 150. I had a dealer tell me when I bought the Prime that if I was happy with the 150, not to rush to buy something else just because it's a very affordable cart. I didn't heed his advice, but I'm glad at this point I didn't. But I don't think he though I was willing to jump up in price to the extent I did. If the 150 was $1000, I wonder if I would have just stayed put. It's far better than it has a right to be at the price. The sa is a step down from the 150 imo. That's a shame. I concur....people with a 150 need to buy replacement stylus now while they can, even if the price is going up. But the 150 will stay on my secondary system, so it's all good. Now I know I wasn't crazy being frustrated by the fact that until the Soundsmith, I couldn't find anything I liked better. Thanks again!
     
  5. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    The loading should always be played with for MC carts, reason being that the manufacturer stated setting is merely a suggestion. If my system is inherently bright, if I use the same loading as somebody with a system which naturally sounds much warmer, we'll get very different results. He'll find it sounds clear and detailed while I'll think it sounds brittle and fatiguing.

    It just takes 10 secs to change it and makes a radical difference in the sound.
     
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  6. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I will and let you now...thank you as always.
     
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  7. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    For instance, a member who has a very similar setup to mine including the cart suggested I try 1Kohms. I tried that but it was *way* too bright. The next step down was 100 ohms which sounds perfect.

    Too late now but I suspect your opinion of some of the carts you tried could have been different if the optimal loading would have been flicked. Only thing is I think you might be feeling a bit intimidated by the many Chinook loading settings. Don't be. Most phono stages don't have half as many. Mine, for instance, only has 3 plus a customized one requiring soldering. The 3 settings are 47 kOhms, 1 kOhms, 100 ohms. Typically, the higher settings make it sound brighter. Lower, it's warmer. Try these 3 settings and see what you like. If you feel like going slightly higher or lower to take advantage of the many more settings the Chinook offers, you can then do that. BTW, the 3 settings I put there go from high to low.

    Let me know which loading setting you started and ended up with. :)
     
    Jrr likes this.
  8. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Will do....it's encouraging knowing that I'm happy with where it is...it's always harder when you're trying to fix something. And I got your point and have been trying hard to convey that my issues may have not been cartridge issues per say...could have been preamp settings and not breaking in the cartridges. People would be okay to go with my positive comments regarding the Soundsmith, but I wouldn't avoid the others out and out just because of my experience.
     
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  9. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Just wanted to check in with everyone and let you know how much I am completely loving this cartridge! I am blown away how non-fatiguing it is even loud, but it is still plenty bright enough for me. I love the detail and awesome soundstage. I don't know what one gets if they spend lots more, but I am so finished with looking. Very satisfied now. Thanks again for all the excellent advice.
     
    ellingtonic likes this.
  10. ellingtonic

    ellingtonic Forum Resident

    I'm glad you're digging yours too! I can't imagine a better cartridge at the price you paid and the retip option makes it an even better value.
     
    Jrr likes this.
  11. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    absolutely. recently changed from 1000 ohms on my LOMC (too bright and thin) to 100 ohms (sweet and balanced, slightly dark) made a huge difference. new phono stage has more options- running at 475 ohms and this is perfect.
     
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  12. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I was listening to the Streisand Guilty half speed master tonight. Barry Gibb plays guitar throughout and it used to be so buried I was barely aware of it. Now it was up front on the left side, and her vocal was gorgeous. The other cartridges I tried, one even being more expensive, weren't even close! Supertramp Crime Of The Century....just wow! And I thought it sounded good before. So I have to completely agree with you. What an absolute blast I'm finally having. Crystal clear highs, zero sibilance, absolutely no fatigue even at loud volume, easy installation, fantastic soundstaging....it has it all in spades.

    I think the biggest single issue the industry has is there is no practical way to audition all these different cartridges. I have spent close to five grand buying all these and the only reason I'm now happy is because of the recommendation here. However, that is what also led me to three others as well. No ones opinion is wrong, so it makes it tough. I don't know how all those cart mfg survive out there, and how many buyers compromise because they can't keep spending money auditioning cartridges. But when you get there, it's pretty darn amazing.
     
    ellingtonic likes this.
  13. husafreak

    husafreak Great F'n music that's difficult to listen to!

    Location:
    NorCal, Bay Area
    Yes, so right Jrr, I like my Sumiko BB but I have no idea what the others sound like. Good for you, actually auditioning all those cartridges. That is the heart of the audiophile experience, hearing the differences in components and making decisions based on your observations. Bravo! It is interesting that you chose a Soundsmith cartridge for your Prime. They are very popular over at the VPI forum. I may have to try other cartridges some day, if they don't loose too much value in trade why not?
    The whole world of LO MC's is a mystery to me. I also have an old Krell preamp with an onboard phono stage. I don't know if it can do the job with a low output cartridge. With my HO MC Blackbird I generally have the volume up just over halfway, 12-1 oclock. With my digital source I barely crack the volume, 8-9 oclock maximum.
     
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  14. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I didn't really play around much with my Chinook preamp. That being said, I had to turn up my Krell pre to 1/2 to 3/4 which really brought out the hum I was getting and it just wasn't a lot of fun. And not really hearing anything exciting with the other carts I tried, and I assume they just weren't good synergy with my set up, I was getting discouraged for sure. I am grateful for the two suggestions on the Soundstage, and $999, I can't imagine there is anything better out there. I set up the Chinook to mfg suggestions, and I am getting plenty of volume at 1/4-1/3. And perhaps I could have played with the Chinook and got there with the ART9, etc, but I just didn't get around to it and I doubt it would have changed the characteristics to the point that I would have been anywhere as happy as I am now. It's amazing the ART 9 is in the same ballpark with price, but no where near the sound quality level in my system that the Zephyr III is. I do need to say the Soundsmith was bought on sale, plus I got $200 for trading in my old ATML440, which if I recall is about what I paid for it (and a mighty fine cart for that price...that lead me to my favorite cart until now, the MLX150) so a real no brainer at $999. Thanks for the supporting words...I hope you get around to trying this magnificient cart unless you enjoy what you have. I guess that's the goal after all! So glad that at last I'm there, and can really just enjoy the music.
     
  15. The Zephyr looks like a beauty but I did want to touch base on something you keep bringing up as my fave for many years was also the AT150MLX. I still have the 150 as well as a AT440MLA in my second system. Anyway, I just upgraded to an Ortofon 2M Black and find it markedly better in all respects: detail, depth, midband, not to mention gain. I posted my review on someone else's thread about the Ortofon 2M Black. (hindsight: probably should have just started my own thread)
     
  16. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    He already tried the black and hated it. It had a clinical sound in his setup and brought forward the pops and clicks.
     
  17. Yeah, I got that. That's why I replied. I just retired my AT150MLX as well, which was previously OP's fave cart, as was mine. He also posits that he attempted to install the Black at the beginning of his journey and likely wasn't yet proficient with his set up skills.
     
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