MMG Questions (and Impressions)

It's actually 12 months.

Tim

 

Hi Barry,
I thought that somewhere in this thread you had mentioned that the room was too small for the 1.6's, I think it was after I posted the photos. I actually liked the 1.6's as much as the 3.6's, it may have had to do with the fact that they were placed differently in the listening room and I may not have hit the right spot (perhaps not for either one for that matter...). I like the idea of the credit for upgrade but I may not have the spare change in 12 months.....

 

You need to place the Maggies at least 3 ft away from the back and side walls. If I understand correctly you can't use the long wall, so you would need to place them against a 15' wall. Being 19" wide, that would leave about 6 feet between them which should be sufficient. But if there is any way possible, the preferred placement would be along the longer wall.

Either way though I think you will love 'em.

 

Hi Veech,
Did some more exact measurements with the help of my five year old....
The room is 14 feet wide by 20'8" long by 7'4" high.
The back of the listening couch is 15'2'' from the short wall. The long walls are covered by book cases and DVD/CD cases all the way along...
I think the 1.6's may be too big and pricey for now...I saw a photo in an Audiogon ad for used MMG's (I think it would require the owners permission to up it here) and it gave me a better perspective on their size, they're not that small after all and may be the better fit for now for this listening room. There's only 3 years left on the lease anyway, lots of time to save up some $....
Dave

 

Hi Dave,

If you can find a thread where I said such a thing, I'd like to know.
I'm serious. I'd read it, feel silly and apologize for saying that.

I don't believe I ever suggested that. Perhaps someone else did?
Again, if you find my words saying this, please point them out to me.

If the showroom you visited had the Maggie 1.6s or 3.6s just 3 feet from the wall behind them and they were playing at anything beyond "background" levels, you were hearing cancellation from the rear bounce.

Ideally, a minimum of 5 feet will allow for ~10 milliseconds of delay between the direct sound and the bounce from the wall behind the speakers.
As I said earlier and always say (and not just about Maggies):
Every foot from the wall adds $1000 to the sound.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Dave,

Did you get to check out this?

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Barry, does this apply because the 1.6s and 3.6s are so much bigger than the MMGs? How would rear bounce cause cancellation, is it out of phase?

 

Hi Veech,

It isn't an issue of polarity (in my view, the more accurate term) but rather the algebraic summing of the direct sound from the speaker and the delayed bounce from the wall so close to the speaker. This summing results in a series cancellations, sometimes called "comb filtering" because of the appearance when graphed.

This will happen to a degree, with any speaker, any time there are any reflections in the room. Increasing the delay, by moving the speaker away from the wall behind it, will diminish the audibility of the effect by lowering the frequencies involved, moving the dips further from where the ear is most sensitive.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Got it. Is 3 feet still adequate for the MMGs?

 

Hi Veech,

If I wanted to pump up the volume, I'd want them further from the wall.
For quieter listening, I wouldn't worry.

Another alternative when they absolutely can't be moved further from the wall, would be to add some absorption to the wall behind them. Just have to be careful to do with with wide band absorbers. If only the treble and mids is caught, the tone of the room -and hence, the sound- will change toward a heavier, thicker sound.

Most important are the areas on the wall behind the speakers were you'd see reflections of each speaker (from the listening position). Only these areas are what need to be treated.

Just my perspective.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

the old "pretend the wall is a mirror" trick. A good tool to use for this is a cheap wall mirror, like one you would hang on the back of a door. Twenty bucks at Target.

 

Barry,
"I don't believe I ever suggested that. Perhaps someone else did?"
Time for me to eat some crow....it actually was someone else, in fact two other people.
I do apologize for this! In fact, all we ever talked about was the MMG's.

I have read your link, I think that part of the fun in setting up this system is going to be figuring out placement, treatments, etc. That's also why I mentioned the the placement of the Maggies during the demo, they WERE only about 3 feet from the wall and I figured that what I was hearing was basically only a taste of what they could do. In fact we did two auditions, separated by about a half an hour and with the chairs in different positions and there was significant changes in the sound each time.
My friend who was with me loved the 3.6's and I would love to get the 1.6 but right now it would have to be buying used and that has it's hassles.....

 

Hi Veech,

Yup. You can also enlist an assistant to walk along the wall with a small handheld mirror while you sit in the listening position. When you see the reflection of a speaker, you've found an area to place absorption.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Dave,

No problem.
I'm just glad some of my memory cells are still operational. ;-}

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

OK, now I'm getting broader horizons but they raise mpre questions. I can get the MMG's new or these used: 1.6 QR - $1400 plus shipping or Magnepan MG 3A - $995 (pick-up nearby)

I know the theoretical difference between these two models (plus the age difference) but is there a difference in their sounds?

Another question, if I may, are the MG 12'a a good alternate option to the 1.6's?
thanks for your patience guys.

 

Hi Dave,

To my ears, the more recent Maggies are better at dynamics and low resolution, two areas that were traditionally weak points with the design.
For this reason, I'd rather have newer ones myself.

The 12s are somewhere between MMGs and the 1.6. To my ears, closer to the former.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Thanks Barry. I have been speaking with the owner of a 3 year-old pair of 1.6QR's and hope to audition them in a week or so. They are the same price as a new pair of MG12's. Ummm...maybe this thread isn't the place for where I seem to be heading anymore....
cheers,
Dave

 

I just want to thank Magnepan for making these wonderful sounding speakers and Barry for recommending them. There's not be a single purchase which has given me more listening enjoyment in the past 20 years I used to think I'd end up with a pair of Martin Logans, but Magnepans are my new favorite.

 

Just hooked a buddy of mine up for his first legit stereo at age 40. Thanks to Barry and this forum, MMG's and the Outlaw R2150. Sweet jebus that has got to sound super damn good.!!

 

I've posted my mutant SMG [lower half of the panel] + a/d/s/L400e system, here's a photo:


The SMGs were badly stored, so the high-frequency sections of the panels do not function. There are power resistors to get the impedance to a comfortable area for the Sherwood KR 9600. For what's it worth, volume is not an issue. There's a less than ideal sub in the left corner, with the area the sub is sitting in surruronded with sound absorbant material to get rid of any stray upper frequencies from the sub. When I play my SACD of Munch/Boston S.O. performing Saint Seams "Organ Symphony" the sub makes an obvious difference/improvement.

The Maggies have a 8 ohm resistor, the a/d/s L400e's have a 10 ohm resistor. I don't have the space to go by the rules of 3, however, the tops of the Maggies are five feet from the back walls, the bottom parts of the dipoles are looking at some very irregular surfaces. Not perfect set-up, but perfected, as much as possible.

The speaker enclosures the a/d/s speakers are sitting on are not electrically in the system, they function simply as tall speaker stands. The real point here is that the a/d/s/ speakers happen to work very well with the low frequency panels of the Maggies. Below, you can see where the power resistor is hard-wired to the Maggie. At top you see the power resistor going into the a/d/s/L400e.


Here you see the wire leads to the "A" position speaker switch, disconnected from the speaker terminals and wrapped around 10 gauge Blue Jeans speaker wire. As you can see from the photo above, I'm using the single Blue Jeans cable for both speakers. I bypassed the coil that attenuates upper frequencies of the lower frequency section of the Maggie panel, resulting in more energy where the a/d/s speakers have a suck-out, in the upper mid-range.

Call me crazy [wouldn't be the first time] but this system addresses one of the better known issues with the Maggies, beaming. The stereo image holds up well off axis, one doesn't have to hold one's head in a clamp to maintain stereo perspective. Any potential of "Boom" from the little enclosures for the a/d/s speakers is fairly well erased by the position so far into the room. Again, high volumes are not a problem. Though my friend's Paradigm studio 100's play louder, they don't play that much louder and when they do, it's usually too much anyway, my ears start to cave in. I realize this is all audio heresy, but having heard my fair share of megabuck systems, I'll say this approach works.
One of my questions would be—why hasn't the Magnapan company worked on developing planar speakers with curved surfaces? Another is visualizing a planar/ribbon speaker, with larger mid/bass panels behind small, tall, curved treble panels.

 

I recently purchased the Bel Canto Ref 500M amps to pair with my MMG's. I have never used a D-Class amp(s) before and was a
little apprehensive at first, I'm also using a Prima Luna Prologue tube preamp. I must say that even though I've owned Maggies four
different times over the years (this being my final trip down the Maggie isle), they do sound wonderful, I'm very pleased.

I hope to be putting some final touches in my system with some new speaker cables and some corner bass traps behind the MMG's,
any suggestions would help.

I'm now using a 25 foot pair of Audioquest Type 4 speaker cables for quite a few years and should be able to get it down to 16 feet
so anything to expensive is prohibitive.