MMG Questions (and Impressions)

Hi Randy W,

I have reached different conclusions on some of these and identical ones on others:

1. I prefer the resistors in place in every Maggie installation I've yet heard.
2. I prefer high current solid state amps, though I've heard them sing beautifully with a few powerful tube amps.
3. I find this is no more true for Maggies than it is for other speakers. It's just that the better something can perform, the more noticeable things are when it is not allowed to reach its peak. (Could we say an out of tune Lambourghini suffers more than an out of tune Chevy Nova? I'd say yes.) Actually, a bit of absorption behind them, bass trapping in corners, midpoints and quarter points and diffusion for all late reflections.
4. I find this too is true of all speakers I like.
5. Actually, the first reflection points are on the wall behind the speakers. This is the one closest to them and hence, the first one the sound reaches. While they have minimal side radiation, what does go to the side (e.g. lower frequencies) hits the side wall before the sound reaches the wall behind the listener.
6.Oh yes! I find this is true of everything, from speakers and source components to electronics (yes, even solid state), power conditioners, power supplies, etc.
7. True of all good speakers I know of. More true as the speaker gets better. I hear no "problems" with Maggies. Just the opposite in fact. These things have the ability to sound like Music (as opposed to sounding like a "good speaker"). That's a trick few at any price can pull off successfully.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I should add:
No right or wrong or better. Just another perspective.
The Maggies never fail to thrill me.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

It came with "sticker shock" for me also. This is another place where the Magnepans (at least the MMGs) defy conventional wisdom, that one should spend more of their budget on speakers than any other major component. The MMGs sound way better than anything else for the price.

 

Of course, this goes without saying, but it is good of you to point it out. I was speaking of the traditional "first reflection point" on the side walls. Since the 3.6 ribbon is primarily a straight line radiator, there is little side wall reflection for that source. It is more important to diffuse the front wall and damp the rear wall reflection points for best sound.

Although many of my points hold true for other good speakers, I have also found that they are all more critical with Maggies. Especially this one: "They sound best with gear that is much higher end than the speaker cost suggests".

After extensive testing, I disagree with your preference for resistors and solid state gear, but as you say it's a matter of perspective.

 

Hey Veech,

My room is 11 wide and 19 deep with a 10-foot ceiling. The pix doesn't show it but there's lots of items (CD shelves along the side walls, LP shelving at the other end, big listening chair, Corner Tunes up top, etc.) to dampen and break-up the sound a bit.

Not a tremendous amount of room for other people, but I don't have a lot of friends because I'm an audiophile and I hang out on forums on the internet .

Just joking about the friends part...I hope .

 

Hi Randy,

I would say that most important is to delay the front wall reflection by placing the speakers away from it. Even when this isn't possible, I've found absorption rather than diffusion will help.

Personally, when I design a room, I use diffusion only for later reflections, never for early ones, which unless absorbed, will defocus the images and soundstage. That's how I hear it anyway.

To be clear on my amp preferences, I tend to look at the whole design rather than internal components. In other words, I've heard tube amps that will shame some of their solid state competition. I've also heard the opposite. I attribute this to overall circuit topology and not to the designer's choice of tubes or transistors. Among what I consider the best amps I've ever heard, there is a fair share of both. (Same with the analog vs. digital dichotomy: I've heard examples of both that are excellent and examples of both that are the opposite.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I am glad everyone is talking about diffusion and absorption panels now. It never hurt to experiment with room accoustic. For a lot of us... a heavy blanket is an ideal temporary test equipment

Diffusion should be able to be accomplished with... mmm... CD rack with some CD sticking out more than other in various positions? Just try it out behind one speaker and a blanket on the other so you get some idea.

As for amplifier, there is no need to spend crazy amount of money. However, it is true that there are a lot of amps that cost too much and is crappy. That is why I mentioned used amplifiers... Especially those that were highly praised and were extremely expensive at that time... is now affordable. You can always sell it for no loss which makes it no brainer.

For example, my Sumo Polaris was sold in 1984 for $750! How much would that amp cost in today's money? Over $2000... counting inflation. Now, if you were to ask me that person who designed that amplifier... how much is his amplifier today? He makes Ampzilla monoblocks... it is $7000 a pair. Go figure.

I find old amplifiers are worth their weight... ask any audiophiles... do they go buy new amps? No... they buy used old amps.

 

Welcome to the Forum, TigerMMG.

I'm with you on the used amps idea. Not only are they cheaper (as compared to the same amp brand new) but I've found that a lot of the older models are built a bit better...a bit heavier. And as all audiophiles know, if an amp weighs more it will sound better .

 

yep, I've come to the conclusion that I'll most likely buy the Maggies new but continue to search for used amps. Thing is, I probably won't order the speakers until I have the amps in hand since I won't want to burn through any of Magnepan's 60-day return policy hunting for amps.

Currently I am searching AudiogoN and Audioholic's Classifieds, where else can I search for used equipment? Monitoring these sites is a hassle but if I can locate a couple of used monoblocks, or even a stereo power amp that fits the bill, I may be able to save a couple hundred or more.

Are two good mono amps necessarily better than one equally good stereo amp? I assume so because of power consumption regulation, but what do you folks think?

 

Hi Veech,

It depends on the amps' overall design.

There are some theoretical advantages to separate mono amps but these can be easily swamped by poor circuit topology.

I suggest choosing the amp for what it does, regardless of whether it ends up being two channels in one box or one channel each in two boxes.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

..and you know, that's the real irony of this little journey I have been on. I have not yet heard the MMGs but from all indications they are so good that they will show int deficiencies of my current system. I still need to get proper amplification and the correct cables and most likely will need a USB preamp since I don't think the Creative sound card is in the same class as the MMGs.

MMGs = $600. The whole system upgrade including the Maggies = $2500.

So, although the speakers themselves are a tremendous value, they cost a lot more than the list price! I don't deny that it is worth it, I just hope my AARP ears don't keep me from hearing my investment!

 

Hi Veech,

If you set them up properly, I'm betting you'll hear magic from the first note -- well before they break in and the real magic starts.

(If you plan to work in high resolution, especially in multitrack, I would re-consider the USB idea.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I'm new to this thread, and I've been considering MMGs. As far as amplification, the Outlaw monoblocks look good (I'd need to get a pre-amp). I was also looking at the NAD C372 integrated amp. Would this do well driving a pair of MMGs, or is it one of these "PA" type amps user bdiament mentioned a few times? Perhaps it's not a good match for other reasons?

 

hmmmm.. ok I'll bite. What issues do you think I might encounter with a USB pre-amp, latency?

Other than upgrading the sound card, is there another option?

 

Hi cwell2112,

I have not heard that particular amp (it is not a PA amp) but in my experience NADs don't grab control of a speaker like the Maggie want and need.

I don't believe the Outlaws have any real sonic competition at anywhere near their price.

A preamp is more difficult. I'm still looking for something to recommend to folks. (My old budget fave is the Audio Alchemy DLC and a few friends have been able to find them on the used market.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Veech,

For high resolution digital multitrack, USB will choke. It was never meant to handle audio in the way something like Firewire does with ease. USB involves constantly polling of the system so it "knows" when to send/receive data. With high res multitrack, it will stumble, cough and be a general PITA.

It all depends on what you want to do and what sort of applications you want to use. But this gets into a whole 'nother area that is well beyond the scope of this thread.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

This one is for Barry....

I see you suggest the Nordost Flatline speaker wire. If my research is correct, there are several models of this wire. Is there a good starting point with this wire or should one go straight to the top of the line? By the way, I have MG12's. Thanks for any input.

Alan

 

Hi Alan G,

With MMGs, Flatline Gold is the one I prefer. (Sorry, I thought it was just called Flatline.) If your speakers have bi-wire connections, which the MMGs do not, I'd suggest Super Flatline if the budget allows it.

Next up from there (to my ears) is Blue Heaven.

Remember to give any of these a solid 50 hours worth of music playing for them to "arrive".

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Veech , here's a Forum that I frequent , and it just so happens , that I bought my M200's used at this Forum . Great bunch of guys and Gals . . . they have rules on being able to post and buy on there . . . so Please read the rules

The link is below . . .

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/

 

Though my power amp is really a professional grade (PA) type amp, it is rated at 700 watts into 4 ohms, per channel. It's a class H amplifier.

I have the resistors wired in series for three ohms. The smell I get when I crank them is the resistors getting hot. Very hot. The top half of the speakers get warm too.

Apparently, the upper frequency section themselves pull a hefty load.

I find I like the sound better with the resistors though. And having them at 3 ohms sounds best to me.

I don't have any sound baffling behind them.

 

As I look around the name Emotiva keeps coming up as an alternative to the Outlaws. Would the Emotiva XPA-2 be something to consider? Here is a brief blurb from Audioholics:

Emotiva has given new meaning to the words high end, high power, high value amplifier with the introduction of their new XPA-2. This baby is armed to the teeth with electronic goodies, weighing in at around 75lbs and boasting a 1600VA transformer and over 60,000 uF of power supply capacitance. The Emotiva, XPA-2 is specified to deliver 250wpc into 8 ohms / 500wpc into 4 ohms with both channels driven and a whopping 1000 watts bridged. All of this comes at a meager asking price of $799! This appears to be the real deal folks and we are simply dying to do a formal review. In the meantime, check our our initial impressions.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/emotiva-xpa-2-stereo-power-amplifier

It's just a few bucks more than two Outlaw M2200s, just wondering if it's a contender for running the MMGs?

 

Thanks Stephen! I did browse it and found a guy in Denver who posted on December 22nd looking to sell three M200s at $300 each. But not having 25 posts racked up, or even being a member, I'm not able to contact him yet.

 

Hi Barry,

Thanks for the input!

Alan

 

I've said it before, my suggestion would be to grab a McCormack DNA-0.5 or larger amp. You can generally pick these up used for $500-$750 used. Not only are they great for Maggies (I am driving my MG-12's with one), but these are very nice sounding amps in general.

 

Veech ,

I re-read the rules , I think the 25 minimum post rule is for those that want to SELL something , I believe that if You register and post 5
times , You'll be able to " PM " the Seller in Question .

Good Luck to You in Your Quest . . . You won't Regret it