Modern DACs are vastly superior?

On a recent podcast with John Darko, he stated that current DACs are vastly superior to those from 5 years ago. Currently, I use a first generation Rega DAC which isn't serving me well due to poor performance with USB.
Is it true that modern DACs would vastly outperform my circa 2009 Rega?
I read myriad reviews of modern DACs, and am left with the conclusion that they all sound very good, just present the music in a different manner.

 

Technology has certainly improved. The type of chipsets the DACs use will also be a factor.

I’ve got Schiit, Topping, Peachtree, and Line Magnetic DACs and enjoy them all.

 

In terms of measurements? Yes.

 

Now that the units are more prevalent among those with discretionary income, there are more varieties to sell. That always makes a difference.

 

In terms of sound? ...maybe. Some old DACs were very very well designed (likely including Rega), and some new ones undoubtedly designed by less-than-experts. And you can also find opinions that the dinky little Apple DACs mini-cords are transparent to most listeners
Quickie: Apple iPhone Lightning Headphone Adapter
Apple Lightning Adapter Audio Quality Measurements
(these are more measurement; the opinion thread is somewhere else, and you could listen to a direct file then an AD/DA version, many users I guess could not tell a difference).

--> If you spend money upgrading the DAC, be sure you can return inexpensively if you are not blown away.

 

Well I think the USB sections in modern DACs are way better now than they were 10-12 years ago. I remember in those days people slamming how bad USB was for audio.

 

John Darko bugs me. Also has no comments enabled.
Seems like he just tries to sell.

now I could be wrong of course.

 

Among the better digital devices I've heard are "modern" builds that rely on DAC chips that are MUCH older than 5 years old. For example, the Audio Note DAC 5 signature DAC use AD 1865 chips and vintage tubes and circuits that could have been manufactured back in the 1990's given the parts and "technology." Another tube DAC that I really like is a tube DAC built by a builder in Italy named Aldo that also uses this same ancient chip. I think Lampizator also uses this chip, but, I have not heard their DAC.

The music server I use, the Naim ND 555, is younger in design than five years, yet, it too employs an ancient DAC chip (Burr Brown 1704). This is a nice sounding unit, although I do prefer the sound of the two tube DACs I mentioned above (I like my streamer/server for convenience and quite decent sound).

I don't think technology is necessarily advancing so rapidly that something five years old is obsolete, unless you require things like MQA or are into high resolution digital. For playing CD level digital, I would take a twenty year old Audio Note DAC over almost anything out there now.

 

5 years ago was the rise of r2r. a 5 years dac can easy compete with today's dac. now if you were to ask dac of 10 years ago...
john darko... makes nice looking video but to call them "vastly superior" actually makes him sound like a fool for anyone that has been here long enough

 

Podcast sponsors don't want presenters saying a 1995 CD player is as good as you need...

Guess it depends on your tastes and how much faith you have in super-integrated solutions.

1990 Levinson Proceed PDP2 DAC (I have PDP3) -



(also R-2R, by the way, so "the rise" of old technology simply goes along with those who feel happy paying 10x for their exotic but unaccomplished turntable and tubes.)


2013 Schiit Loki DSD-only DAC (up to $40 on eBay right now...):

 

Modern DACs are what?
The best DAC chipset was and is Philips TDA1541 ... best without oversampling

Measurements is one thing, the result another.

But I also think that old Cars with ancient V8s are perfect, others may prefer small Toyotas

 

Are they, though? I have an Auralic Vega which was one of the best measuring DACs of its time when it came out in 2012 or 2013. Take his site for what it's worth, but the Audiosciencereview site has it measured against many other DACs and it still holds its own and is in the top tier of DAC measurements. I think that budget DACs keep getting better, that is true, but at the high end, I think that there is a limit to what can realistically be achieved. I know that Auralic has come out with a second version of the Vega (at twice the price of the original Vega), but aside from the Stereophile-type cries of "blacker blacks!" and "you can hear the emotion!", I have not seen any reviews that really say anything substantive about how or whether they are that much better. Then again, I'm one of those people who thinks that the DAC is the least important of all of the major components because the range between a "good" and "bad" DAC is so narrow; it's not like a turntable cartridge or loudspeakers that have much wider ranges in possible performance and sound signature.

 

I use an original Rega DAC. The USB implementation was sub par. If you want an upgrade to the Rega get a good USB/Spdif converter and go Coaxial Digital into the Rega DAC.

If you like the Rega I think that's your best bet.

If you really want to try something different coming from Rega my recommendation would be a used Naim DAC V1 (they are not made new anymore) , Schiit Audio Bifrost 2 or Gungnir Multibit. Lastly a Chord DAC seems to be something people like who are fans of Rega/Naim.

 

Depends I think. Most of the DACs in my system originated year ago. The Wolfson WM8740 is probably from the 2005 era or so, the DAC in my Sony CDP-911E is getting on for 30 years old. The sound quality is terrific still.

The newest DAC I have would be the one in the Arylic S10 streamer, but I've no idea what that is. Sounds great with wireless, Bluetooth not so much.

 

Heck, I really loved my 70’s sound system. I should have kept it. We all know nothing has really improved since then.

 

That’s utter nonsense. Today, we have cables that cost $20k that will bring the performer into your listening space. You can reach out and actually touch them. If you are lucky they will autograph your album for you.

Like CD players, the newer ones are getting better but let’s compare apples with apples. Just make sure they are in the same price category. It’s already hitting the glass ceiling and manufacturers are using more interesting concepts, exotic components and material to justify the crazy prices.

As for ASR ... IMHO measurements are not everything. They hailed the Topping D90, SINAD ranking is high but there are DACs out there ranking lower which will beat it in terms of sound quality.

Looking at ASR SINAD ranking are we going to say the Mola Mola Tambaqui is way over priced, in terms of performance, when it is compared with the D90?

 

I can't do any comparisons because I don't have broad enough experience with DACs over the years, but I have to say, I'm amazed at the transparency, the low noise floor leading to greater levels of low level inner detail, the improved USB receivers (which you say is a problem with your Rega so many something you need to switch out anyway), the sheer transparency of even modern Chi-fi DACs I've heard. That said, I'm also still amazed at how good my older little FIIO X3 2nd gen portable player used as a DAC sounds. Personally I don't really have fond memories of NOS digital or r2r DAC topologies, but I haven't heard any of that tech in years.

 

One issue with Darko is he is often testing DACs and amps with mediocre speakers.

He strikes me as more of a pay-to-play reviewer than even Stereophile, though he does an amicable job of appearing honest.

 

I discovered the superiority of modern DACs when I hooked my mini-disc deck up to one. Mini-discs sound really good with a modern DAC!!!!

Mini Disc player is the Sony MDS-JB930 (built in the ES factory) and the DAC is an Audio by Van Alstine Vision.

 

Thanks, but I don’t get what you’re point is. Could you please explain?

 

Actually I recently got a Topping D90 because I was looking for a sub $1K Swiss Army knife kind of DAC in terms of inputs, resolution and file formats it could handle, variable or fixed outputs. It sounds great. Very transparent and revealing. I never had high end digital gear but this little Topping is delivering inner detail and lifelike dynamics as the p to ppp end of the dynamic scale I haven't heard from digital gear in my home before.

What does "beat it in terms of sound quality" mean? Seems to mean something different to different cliques of people in the world of audio today. Used to more broadly mean greater fidelity to the source input. Now it seem to tend to mean the particular characteristics I prefer.

As to S/N, I am really amazed at how silent and distortion free a lot of today's gear is compared to the gear of yesteryear (I'm not necessarily talking about a 5 yr DAC when I mean yesteryear). And that kind of background silence can really help deliver startlingly lifelike dynamics and inner detail. It might not be apparent to someone who is listening to, say rock and contemporary pop music, but if you're listening to jazz or classical or any sort of music that has long passages of quiet music, or very wide dynamic range, or use of the dynamic range at the quiet end of the spectrum from ppp to p, that kind of background silence adds to the immediacy and lifelike quality of the music reproduction. I guess that doesn't always mean "great sound" even to me -- my wife's RIVA wifi speaker system can play loud and distortion free, but it doesn't really deliver the same experience as a hifi stereo rig of the sort that I would consider "great sound." But, after many years of being a tube audio listener, I won't dismiss the value of very low noise and very low distortion again. Thinking actually of ditching the tube gear altogether. During the height of the spring pandemic in NYC, I had family living in what had been my music room, so I was stuck listening to headphones, a type of listening I really struggle with. I bought an inexpensive headphone amp and a pair of HD6XX phones. It was OK. Still not a way of listening I could get lost in. But I was knocked out by the sheer silence of the gain available from even this inexpensive little amp, and the resulting transparency of that silence, the so-called "blacker blacks." Really changed the way I now approach the tube gear in my hifi rig now that I'm back in the music room. I'll never again sniff at even seemingly inaudible differences in SINAD bench tests.

 

It was a joke ... just pushing the fallacy that $8k cables will bring the performer into your living room.

@chervokas the Topping D90 is very good for the price. There’s no doubt. But it does get better when you start throwing money into DACs. It’s absurd but yeah, there is a better sound. Smoother. More clarity etc. Just like upgrading speakers. You do hear it.

But that does not mean by buying a lower priced DAC we have a handicap in our system.

 

Trying Chord DACs has been one of the very few 'game changing' moments in my own hifi journey. Awful cliche but true. Have only ever heard digital sound so convincingly real through higher end NOS (Audio Note) DACs. Both ends I guess of the technology spectrum, ish, or at least not in the middle bit.

Would love to get my own (lower end) AN DAC back to try against the 2Qute as the rest of the system has moved on since then too.

 

Companies like AKM and ESS and certainly in an arms race to develop higher performance chips every year. 2009 is basically ancient history now as far as this goes.

Whether OP can hear the difference or not is another story. Best thing for OP is home audition of a few newer DACs with SOTA chips, if they don't like them, stick with what they have and ship the new stuff back.

 

As far as DACs go I have two relatively inexpensive DAC/streamers. In my bedroom system a Bluesound node 2i that I find sounds really great. The other a Gold Note DS10 which imho is superior both sonically and ergonomically. Neither of these could be considered “high priced”. I do believe that the Dacs specially the DS-10 are sonically superior to my last few Disc players the Sony SCD1 and the Cambridge CXU. None of this stuff could be considered very high end or priced.