MOFI Miles Davis Vinyl Remasters discussion

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Cassius, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Yes, but that is not the only reason. Using the mono button on a stereo LP sounds awful in general.
     
  2. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    I only have the SACD version, but I really enjoy the Mo Fi "On the Corner," and think it is the original mix. Sure sounds great to me on my system.
     
  3. musictoad

    musictoad Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I may be doing a 180 on the MoFi KoB... it's sounding better and better.
     
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  4. SuperFuzz

    SuperFuzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    About 7 or 8 years ago, I actually did a very simple listening test - I listened to the stereo version of K.O.B. in mono. I just folded it myself, a straight 50/50 sum to mono, using software (I was listening to a CD rip of the 2009 CD). I then compared to an original 6-eye mono LP, a WLP incidentally. Then I listened for mix differences. I heard none. I posted about this here in one of the numerous K.O.B. threads, where the mono mix was being discussed, regarding whether the mono mix was a unique mix, or a fold down. I concluded that the mono mix may as well be a fold down, because that's what it sounds like when you actually fold down the stereo version. The balance between the piano, bass drums, horns, even the amount of reverb, sounded the same. There was no response to that here. It seemed that most people would rather just debate or talk about the mono mix as if it's something totally unique, than just try and listen to the stereo mix summed to mono. That's not to say that listening to an actual mono LP will sound exactly the same as folding the stereo version, but the differences in the mix will be very, very small. At least that was my experience. I would be curious to hear anyone else's opinion after trying the same simple test, rather than coming to some theoretical conclusions. Maybe other people will hear it differently.
     
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  5. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    Having loved all the Miles MOFI reissues I've heard so far, I finally decided to take a chance on KOB, despite the mixed reviews and the fact that I was pretty satisfied with the Kevin Gray mastering on the Legacy LP. Before the MOFI KOB arrived, I took a listen to a needledrop I had of the Classic version, and didn't care for it at all--it sounded very unlike the typical Grundman approach, with what seemed like an overly burnished lower midrange, making it feel a bit congested. It's probably due more to the needledropper's equipment than to the mastering, though other Grundman masterings from the same needledropper sounded more consistent with what I've heard from actual Grundman mastered LPs I own. In any event, this made me more optimistic that I might like the MOFI more than those who have compares it unfavorably to the Classic.

    Having given the MOFI an initial spin, I was surprised in both positive and negative ways. To begin with the positive, I did not find the bass overwhelming at all. I certainly noticed that the bass in "So What" and "Freddie Freeloader" sounded much more palpable than is usual for an upright bass, but I kind of enjoyed it. I didn't feel like it overpowered the rest of the music or sounded sludgy. As strong as it was, it stayed very precisely in its spatial location. I also didn't notice the "glassy" quality others mentioned. In fact, I heard nothing that sounded unpleasant or unnatural in any way. An additional positive, particularly in "So What," was an especially rich and vivid tone on Coltrane's sax. These were my initial impressions, and I was thinking that this reissue would be a total success on my system.

    However, as I listened through the entire album, I realized that something was missing. As I said above, I wasn't noticing anything unpleasant or unnatural, but aside from the initial impact of the bass and the tenor sound, nothing was making me think "Wow!" Even that bass and tenor sound seemed less vivid on the second half of the album. All this would probably have been fine were it my first time hearing the album, but it obviously wasn't, and I was frankly used to being "wowed" throughout. With the Gray mastering (which comes on an inexpensive 33 that may even be cut from a digital source, though I don't think that's been firmly established), I get that "wow" feeling during pretty much every solo. That just wasn't happening with the new MOFI.

    What might account for the difference? My initial thought is that the MOFI actually sounds very real and natural, whereas the Legacy has a more shimmering, ethereal quality. The instruments on the Gray mastering sound less solid and weighty, but more delicate and reverberant--one is more aware of the room ambience, which is pretty minimal with the MOFI. Normally, I might find this "airiness" to be artificial sounding, but it somehow works and feels quite natural on this particular recording. The MOFI is not bad at all, but it lacks that special sparkle that I'm used to hearing on this album (aside from the tenor sound on the first two tracks, which arguably does have it). In his review, Michael Fremer noted that the pictures in the MOFI booklet might have benefitted from a glossy paper stock rather than the matte paper they used, and that seems like a perfect metaphor for how I experienced the sonics--very well done, but given a kind of matte finish where I would have preferred a slightly glossier sheen.

    Now, this is all just a first impression--and based only on my memory of the Legacy mastering, rather than a direct comparison. I'll probably do a direct comparison soon, and also listen at night (maybe listening to this kind of nocturnal album during the day would have an impact on my perceptions).
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  6. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    Well, I did the direct comparison between the Legacy and the MOFI KOB, and it definitely confirmed that my strong preference is for the Legacy. The one thing I would amend in my analysis above is that the problem with the MOFI on my system really is what others have been describing, after all: too much bass. I was wrong in saying above that the extra bass seemed only to affect the upright bass itself--it affects all the instruments. For the piano, it is fantastic, but for the three horns, it makes them sound like there've been drenched in a thick syrup. This was especially apparent after listening to the Gray mastering first, which sounded absolutely incredible, and had that "wow" factor throughout. The MOFI sounded deeply congested in comparison. I can imagine that with a leaner system, it might sound incredible. On mine (which has never seemed particularly bass-heavy), not so much.

    (The good news, I suppose, is that the Kevin Gray version remains one of the best values in the audiophile reissue market these days. I should also add that all the other recent MOFI releases I've tried have sounded outstanding on my system, so this one is a real outlier),
     
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  7. Starquest

    Starquest ‎ ‎ ‎

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    Now I really want to do the comparison myself. Do you have the mono vinyl reissue?
     
  8. SuperFuzz

    SuperFuzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    I don't, only an original.
     
  9. Starquest

    Starquest ‎ ‎ ‎

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    There are a couple mono vinyl rips on youtube, but they're poor quality...so...you know... :)
     
  10. SuperFuzz

    SuperFuzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    ?
    I guess I don't know, lol.
     
  11. Adamski777

    Adamski777 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I’m late to the party having just picked up the Kind of Blue MFSL vinyl box recently. This is spectacular and sounds perfectly balanced on my set up. To me the bass is just right contrary to some other reviews. I don’t have many records that sound this good and I’m glad I bought this after deliberating for so long.
     
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  12. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    Vintage jazz (records) usually excite less room modes than rock or pop. Just because other records don't sound bloated, doesn't mean they aren't; most folks like slightly boosted bass and won't notice a rise around 60-80hz on jazz albums. The MFSL version of Kind of Blue is one of the rare jazz albums that need perfect room/acoustic treatment and speaker placement. The 60hz-120hz region was brought more into focus, especially on the first three tracks, to make Chambers' bass more audible (it always sounded somewhat buried on previous versions). A good test CD or LP is "Mezzanine" by Massive Attack. Every room mode will be exposed with this one. If the first track "Angel" sounds clean and powerful, you're set.
     
  13. abor1g

    abor1g Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gwada
    i'll test mine . THANKS
     
  14. MisterBritt

    MisterBritt Senior Member

    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM, USA
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  15. This Heat

    This Heat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I have it on preorder.
     
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  16. Jellis77

    Jellis77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton, UK
    My copy of the Speakers Corner arrived today and has been cleaned and so ready to go. Will post a review when I get a chance.
     
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  17. MisterBritt

    MisterBritt Senior Member

    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM, USA
    Just curious if you have had a chance to give this a listen yet? I read recently that this date is, was, and will always be mono. I think that was news to me.
     
  18. Jellis77

    Jellis77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton, UK
    Thanks for reminding me about this I couldn’t find the thread I thought it was a unique Miles in Berlin thread!

    Anyway let me start by saying that I am a big fan of Speakers Corner as a reissue label. I’m in the UK so they are a good price and they are pressed at Pallas which I think is the best pressing plant in the world. I have over 150 titles and I have had one problem pressing.

    This pressing is as usual flat and quiet. I am a major Miles fan but have never heard this on vinyl before. Speakers Corner house style if you like is to me much more music and tone based than most of the other audiophile labels. You don’t often get a wow sound compared to some of the other labels but they are generally true to the music. Compared to my CD this LP is much more lifelike and you can hear more detail from the individual musicians and what musicians they were! I would put them up against any other group in history not just in jazz. This pressing makes me want to play it again and again and the cd never felt that way for me. All in all I’m happy and would not hesitate to recommend it.

    Oh yes and definitely mono.
     
  19. Jellis77

    Jellis77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton, UK
    Also really happy to hear that Miles Smiles and Porgy and Bess are coming out on MFSL next year
     
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  20. MisterBritt

    MisterBritt Senior Member

    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM, USA
    Thanks for your review of In Berlin. Wow, your announcement about Smiles and Porgy and Bess is news to me.
     
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  21. Jellis77

    Jellis77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton, UK
    Yep they are in the latest Music direct catalogue. Can’t wait I have all the Miles MFSL titles (15 I think) so this makes 17 in total so far. I hope they continue
     
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  22. bigtyke66

    bigtyke66 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    I'm very happy about this as well. Ever since I started listening to these Miles MFSL vinyl titles, Miles Smiles has been very high on my wish list. Hope it comes out early in the new year.
     
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  23. SteveCam

    SteveCam Forum Resident

    There is a Speaker's Corner reissue of Miles Smiles available.
     
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  24. Johan1880

    Johan1880 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I compared the new Speakers Corner Miles in Berlin to the vinyl in the Mosaic box. The SC is considerably better in my opinion. The Mosaic vinyl had a digital source because "no suitable original tape" was found, according to the booklet. Apparently SC did find an analog tape and it shows. Highly recommended!
     
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  25. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    I recently purchased the Speakers Corner - Miles Smiles and though it sounds a little rough around the edges I thoroughly enjoyed it and I'd recommend it to anyone.
     
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