Monitor Audio "tweeters"

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by englishbob, Mar 21, 2017.

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  1. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023 Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kent, England
    After long and hard research, and one or two tiresome demos at some stressful shops, I finally put down some serious money on a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 6 floorstanders.

    The plan was to retire the Acoustic Energy Aegis Three floorstanders that have been great for 10 years, but I thought it was time for an update. The Bronze 6's are a rare breed in that they are fairly small dimension wise for a floorstander. Not as small as the AE's where, but certainly smaller than most, especially the monster Q Acoustic ones.

    My room is rectangular, around 9 ft wide by 12 ft long, the speakers are 7ft apart, with just over 7ft to the listening position. Its laminate flooring on solid floor base.

    I've had MA for about 30 hours or so now and I am seriously unimpressed by them. In fact I'm getting to the point of getting my old AE's out of the box and putting them back in service.

    The treble is so shrill. It completely fills the eardrum with something akin to striking a tuning fork and placing it by your outer ear. It completely dominates everything.

    I've tried placing them straight, toeing them in, putting them on spikes and spike shoes, placing heavy duty Milty Folcipods under them instead, bunging the rear port, bunging the front port (not both together I might add), moving them away from walls, putting them close to walls.

    I don't think I have an issue with bass at all, in fact no bass boom at all.

    MA claim 70 hours run in time. But nearly half way through that figure, no real change to talk about. The treble dominates EVERYTHING. Previously with the old AER's, around -14dbs was my normal listening range (8ohm speakers), but with the MA's that dropped instantly to -20db. Even when you keep reducing the sound further, the shrillness is there.

    Any other forum users have similar experiences with MA speakers? Do they get better, or is it claptrap? Is it a case of just sweating it out up to the 70+ hour mark and see what happens.

    My music playing enjoyment has seriously ground to a halt. I was expecting these, with a dedicated mid-range dome, to give a nice warm sound with some great definition. At the moment though it feels like I am going numb in the ears right now!

    [​IMG]
     
  2. octaneTom

    octaneTom Man of Leisure

    I have a pair of tiny Monitor Audio Bronze BR1 monitors doing duty here in the office (listening to them right now). Before that, I listened to them in my bedroom at home, and then in my home office for a while.

    Treble is definitely not overbearing or shrill, but I typically keep them at a pretty low level. I have cranked them at times however, and have never been bothered or offended by the top end.

    I don't remember them changing much from the day I bought them several years ago to now.

    Not sure what to tell you...sorry, probably not much help.
     
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  3. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    How did they sound at the demo?
     
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  4. Liquid Len

    Liquid Len Forum Resident

    Location:
    Yorkshire, UK
    I have used MA Silver 5i floorstanders for years with absolutely no treble issues - spits, sizzles, metallic sheens or anything else noticeable. MA speakers - in fact most models with metal-dome tweeters - have a reputation for HF issues. Could it be an ancillary and/or cable thing? In the demo, did you use your amp & cables? If not then it's a case of caveat emptor I'm afraid and possibly down to system synergy or a lack of it.
     
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  5. skimminstones

    skimminstones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    had br2 and currently using bx5 floorstanders and would never call the treble shrill personally. I love their sound.
     
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  6. gillcup

    gillcup Senior Member

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    I own MA Gold GR60's. What I found with them is if you are listening to well recorded music, they sound great. If you listen to poorly recorded or poorly mastered music, they will sound bad. I feel they are very revealing and they don't soften a bad recording.
     
  7. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    No fun to bring home a set of shiny new speakers and not love the sound.
    I would imagine that part of what you are hearing is not the tweeter but their "voicing" that includes a tipped up mid-band (1Khz to 2Khz) and a peak at the most irritating frequency (3Khz). Wrong place to put a response peak.
    But the key irritating factor is high levels of distortion in the 1K to 2Khz region (see the linked plot, 4th slide). The distortion in this band is only 35db down from the main signal and will most certainly be audible. I like speakers that have at least another 10db of cushion between signal and distortion and good speakers will easily achieve this. Unfortunately distortion does not lessen with break in, but bass certainly does increase and will likely mask the distortion as they break in.
    There are much better sounding speakers out there. Good luck.
    SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: Monitor Audio Bronze 6 Loudspeakers
     
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  8. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I have some MA Silver 8 towers. I believe they have the same tweeter as the Bronze. These tweeters are one of only a handful of metal tweeters that sound good to my ears. I was exclusively a soft-dome guy before I auditioned the MAs.

    Of all the brands I've auditioned and some that I've owned, including B&W, Revel, Golden Ear, Paradigm, Klipsch, Polk, Focal, and Magnepan, the Monitor Audio "gold" dome is the warmest.

    They do require a good 50 hours of break-in to sound best, and I agree that they can definitely reveal poor recordings. I wonder if some of this can be an amp synergy issue. MA towers sound best with a fairly large amount of good quality power in my experience.

    Some of the other British companies like Epos, Harbeth and Spendor offer a slightly warmer tone, but they're more expensive.
     
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  9. Thouston

    Thouston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mattoon, IL
    I think you have a mismatch. I drive a pair of Silver 8's with a yamaha a-s2100, and it sounds great; no shrill treble at all.
     
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  10. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I'm surprised you're not getting bass boom from these towers in that small of a room. 2-way monitors work best for rooms of that size IMO.

    If you auditioned the MAs at a dealer, you might inquire about borrowing the amp they were using to eliminate that factor as the cause.

    Also, try placing a rug on the floor in front of the speakers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  11. Purplerocks

    Purplerocks Forum Resident

    Location:
    IN
    I'd give them some ample break in time
     
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  12. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk Sorry, I can't talk now, I'm listening to music...

    Location:
    Gilbert Arizona
    It been ten years but I owned a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 6. While there were many things I liked the "metallic" high end wore on me. I moved on to Focal and Dynaudio monitors of similar size in subsequent years and preferred them overall.
     
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  13. Thouston

    Thouston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mattoon, IL
    That had to be the Silver RX series. The Silver 6's were released in 2014 with a different tweeter.
     
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  14. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk Sorry, I can't talk now, I'm listening to music...

    Location:
    Gilbert Arizona
    You are probaly correct. I know they were the Silver series and the 6 series but don't recall the other nomenclature. They were great looking. Just looked at a picture of mine
     
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  15. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    I've never heard this particular model of monitor audio speaker. But I've loved the sound of all of their higher-end speakers which I have heard. So I tend to agree that you probably have some sort of equipment mismatch. Great audio is 90% about synergy. And sometimes otherwise great pieces don't "like" other great pieces of equipment. I don't know what the OP is running his speakers with, but I'm guessing that something doesn't like the monitors. Could the amp, preamp or disk-spinner. Or if he is running tubes, he might need to try roll-in some darker sounding tubes.

    But then again, if really hates the sound, then perhaps he should just flip them and be done with this experiment since he wisely held onto his old speakers.
     
  16. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    You need to let them run in at low volume. Don't push them until about 80 hours. Also what amp and speaker cable and interconnects do you use. When buying speakers you must consider the nature of your system.
     
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  17. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    I don't really believe that tweeters need to be burned-in as there's next to no physical movement for them. If they sound shrill now, they'll sound shrill later.

    Sounds like you either have a defective pair or it's a serious mismatch for your system. Why not bring your amp and the speakers back to the shop to do a test in their room? That'd shed some light on what's going on.
     
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  18. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023 Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kent, England
    My amp is a Sony STR-DA5200. Its a multi-channel amp but it is no poor link. It was at the time the top of the range Sony AV amp cost over £1,100. It was well reviewed at the time for music 2 chl playback and has a source direct option, which is absolutely fantastic quality. It is fully switchable between 4 and 8ohm speakers too.

    I can't remember the name of the speaker cable, I think its QED Silver Anniversary off the top of my head. Its not really a candidate to change as it has been channelled under the flooring.

    No bass boom from what I can tell in the room. Bass levels are good

    Thanks for the replies chaps. A lot of them have put my mind at rest about just giving them more time to develop. I took the "not driving them too hard" advice just on your own hearing rather than doing any damage to the drive units though.

    I hope after around 80 hours the earache has gone
     
  19. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    You're free to do as you wish but I'd ensure you're still within the return period before you reach the 80h mark. Personally, I wouldn't even wait a single moment and return them post-hate.

    There's no doubt in my mind they won't miraculously do an 180-degree turn and become audio nirvana just because they've been played a certain number of hours.
     
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  20. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    I have to agree with Strat-Mangler here. What you are describing is how I hear every pair of the recent MA speakers. They are always going to be tough to listen to. From personal experience I can also tell you that you are going about this completely ****-backwards. You indicated that you did a ton of "research" and very little listening to actual speakers. That needs to be reversed to get you the best fit. Basically you want to be able to listen to as many speakers as you can to get an idea of what is available, what you like, and what pricing is like. Then, you need to pay way less attention to what people say about them as none of what most people say matters at all. All that matters in the end for you is that you get a set that sounds better than what you have and that you are pleased to own. So I'd do exactly as Strat-Mangler has said and visit the shop where you got them again. Tell them that there is no way that they are staying in your home (politely) and that you'd like another brand. Surely they have at least one other brand available there? You should be able to exchange the set for another pair at the same store plus or minus any difference in price. You'll need to listen to the others this time and with a new ear for appreciation of high frequency effects. That way, you get what you want and the shop doesn't really lose a sale. That should make them most accommodating for you, hell with the prospect that you might even buy a more expensive speaker set. Storming in and making threats will not go over so well. Politely explaining your situation and willingness to work with them however should. It should even prompt someone there to listen to what you want and make more appropriate suggestions for you. You are lucky to live where you do as there are many places and brands available, so every place should have something worthy to discover.
    -Bill
     
  21. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I still think it might be worth experimenting with the amp factor. It makes a bigger difference than people realize, not the pseudo difference of cables. Even though the Sony may be a great piece overall, it will have its own sound signature that leans toward warm, neutral, or bright. I suggest taking your amp to the dealer to use when auditioning their speakers. Take a few recordings that have always sounded shrill through your old setup.

    If you hate the sound of the MAs now, break-in won't yield enough of an improvement. I'm quite surprised because every other metal dome I've heard, with the exception of Harbeth, was colder and brighter than the MAs, and I've always been very sensitive to bright treble.
    I think you might want to listen to speakers with traditionally polite cone materials: fabric tweeters, paper or polypropylene woofers. If you have a local dealer that carries the Epos brand, I highly suggest an audition. They might have the older Epic or Elan models on closeout. Epos has a "darker" tone than MA, and their newer models of the last few years have soft-dome tweeters. Some Epic 2 bookshelves on decent stands would have more than enough bass for your room.

    Try calling ahead and making an appointment with the dealers, that way it's not inconvenient for either of you.
     
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  22. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working

    Location:
    S FL
    Phase problems can really thin and shrill things out".".........
     
  23. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    not the amp, not the tweeters. the op is hearing high levels of harmonic distortion at 2khz and a voicing / crossover glitch that causes a peak at 3khz. each of these factors can sound like you think you are hearing a bad / bright tweeter. a bad amp or source can make the problem worse but it will always be there regardless of amp.
    look at distortion plots from kef or harbeth speakers for example. they are basically distortion free from lower midrange on up.
     
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  24. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I had been out of audio for many years. Back in 2011, I decided to jump back in and get a real amp and speakers (I was using a player and IEMs').

    We had a nice local audio store chain, that had been sold, went bankrupt and was repurchased and reopened by the original owners.

    When you are away from something for an extended period and then get back into it, you usually have that extra degree of excitement.

    I listened to a few pairs of MA's, my initial impressions were: midrange - not exciting, bass - pistonic, treble OUCH!

    I preferred the sound of my Monster Turbines IEM's any day.

    Even far less expensive Polk speakers, had a nicer, natural midrange, the bass was less mechanical sounding, and the treble, detailed but not harsh.
     
  25. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    How can you tell exactly what he is hearing when you have not heard his setup in person, or taken measurments from his listening position with his exact pair?

    There's plenty of speakers that don't measure well on paper, yet receive high praise by most reviewers/ listeners. The OP apparently felt they sounded decent enough at the dealer. Measurements never tell the whole story, especially with speakers.
     
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