Moondance LP - Is my copy a Rhino?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dr.Balance, Apr 21, 2011.

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  1. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Have you managed to compare the recent vinyl to the latest cd mastering? Thanks!
     
  2. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

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    You are here
    Sorry, not yet.
    Busy with work and ripping my CD's. The only Vinyl I got to play in two weeks are a test pressing [BOG] and the Brazilian "mono" ELL on Polydor.
    I will get to it, maybe this weekend.
     
  3. culabula

    culabula Unread author.

    Location:
    Belfast, Ireland
    Bought this the other day. No wonder the gatefold and god-awful sleevenotes were dropped in this part of the world! Apart from that, sounds great -much better than that disappointing Blu-Ray.
     
  4. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

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    Though I wonder what you expect me to hear with this comparison.
    I will play them using the same amp' and speakers but that is really about it as it's digital up against analogue and I hardly see the point.
    The mastering will be clearly different. I don't think I'll hear the vinyl any differently as to how I hear it now.
     
  5. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    My point: I did the comparison as I wrote above, i.e. original vinyl, new cd and Rhino EU vinyl and the conlcusion was to both the listeners that the Rhino EU LP was a horrible with no soul etc. while the new CD was full of life, "analogueness" and very close to the original vinyl. And it goes without saying that to our ears and system the Rhino EU LP was really a failure compared also to the original LP.

    Since you can see no resemblance between your impression of the Rhino EU LP and ours, and since we cannot have the same original vinyl to "calibrate" our impressions, I think that the new CD may be a reliable and easy/cheap way to do so (all the more because to us the difference was huge. I am really looking forward to your input. Perhaps I have a bad pressing.
     
  6. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    See if you can find the US Rhino pressing which looks like it was a different mastering from the EU. I have a US WLP, and if I were forced to keep one copy I would chose the Rhino. It sounds quite good on two systems I've heard it on; my own using ESL63 speakers and a friend's with horn speakers. I know what you are saying about some modern reissues lacking soul, sounding closed in, etc. But IMHO this doesn't apply to the US Rhino.
     
  7. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    I gladly can take the risk but it is not in stock at my preferred vendor elusivedisc, while the other well known and reliable US ones charge crazy overseas fees. Amazon need investigation so as to get for sure the US version. E.g. amazon.co.uk offers the EU version while under the same ASIN amazon.com offers, it seems, the US one. The sellers need further investigation.
     
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  8. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
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    Just playing the title track from the album on vinyl.
    firstly, I hear no "analogueness" on the digital version. I do hear the difference you speak of but that does not equate to "boring or muffled to death"! At least not on my system.
    From what I'm hearing here I'd like to grab a copy of the US pressing to put up against my EU copy not the CD. if you find a reasonably priced outlet, let me know.
    Anyway, yes it is totally different to the CD issue but nothing I didn't expect to hear between the two formats. But it is different for sure.

    I do hear why you have a preference for the CD, it does present itself in a more immediate manner and has an apparent greater depth.
    The difference lays in the mastering for sure, this suggests that the EU is not an SH/KG mastered album but until / if I get a US pressing I can not be totally sure.

    Hope this helps but I feel it simply stirs the muddy waters even more!
     
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  9. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Thanks for the input. Can you please try "Into the Mystic" as well?

    In my system and two pairs of ears the 2013 CD was much closer to the original vinyl than the EU Rhino reissue, in terms of let's say presentation and feeling (and depth). And independently from accuracy against the original LP, our impression was that the CD was better musically.
     
  10. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Understandable. And after all that effort I'd only purchase it if I were certain it was using the matrices posted in the previous page and not the EU or maybe even a later recut mastering.
     
  11. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
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    Whole album done. Yes, musically is a accurate way of highlighting the difference.

    BUT, big but :) This album sounds fine on my set up and even better with a better set up!
    Either way, I need to hear the US pressing now! Looks like I'll have to ask a favour from a friend in the US.
     
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  12. elmahranbird

    elmahranbird Forum Resident

    Hey Gordon,

    I have a feeling that this is the Kevin Gray/Steve Hoffman mastered version. I've been looking at this and similar records (e.g. the EU WB/Rhino Astral Weeks) and I think the odd Side 2 etched details are actually KvG|SH @ ATM, it's just the way the "K" is inscribed that makes it look like an "M".
    (ATm for AcousTech Mastering)

    I tried to take photos but that didn't really work, however, crude attempts to reproduce with Paint look close enough to me;-)
    Kevin's Signature on Astral Weeks looks something like this:
    [​IMG]

    Now, assuming that the "K" was somehow "mis-etched", this could look like this:

    [​IMG]


    On Moondance's Side 2 then, it actually looks something like this:

    [​IMG]

    But if my theory is correct, that would really be:

    [​IMG]

    If I look at it in a certain light, I think I can see a faint impression of the missing part of the "K":

    [​IMG]

    Or do I just "want" to see it that way;-)

    Eric
     
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  13. Gordon Johnson

    Gordon Johnson Forum Resident

    Location:
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    thanks Eric.
    photos are indeed hard to get in this instance!
    gonna sit and study this along with the album as soon as i can.

    also, checking UK outlets for a US copy.

    oh yeah, i have the [EU] AW pressing too so will pull that one out as well.
     
  14. lyniv

    lyniv Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    My Astral Weeks deadwax looks similar, I'm also interested in what those letters are. Really difficult to read.
     
  15. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    KG's letters are always difficult to read. I suggest you find a magnifying glass. In my experience Rhino EU pressings up until about a year or so ago used the same KG masterings. The situation is different with some recent reissues or repressings were I suspect they go back to digital. These will be Optimal pressings with initials in the deadwax that refer to an in house Optimal engineer. None look anything like those that have been shown here which approx the KG lettering - Usually KG@ATM 0r KG@CCA. Sometimes the @ looks like a V or H. BTW more recent AAA Warner releases are cut by Chris Bellman so I doubt any of the KG have been redone from digital unless a later reissue has been released as appears to be the case with the (originally CB) Joni Mitchell titles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
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  16. lyniv

    lyniv Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    My Astral Weeks looks like the one posted above. I see it now. It's KG@ATM, but there's something he drew after the K, more elaborate than just a line, looks like a letter, is there a middle initial possibly?
     
  17. cyclistsb

    cyclistsb Forum Resident

    Just picked up Astral Weeks and Moondance LPs on RTI pressings....having never been a Van Morrison fan, I'll be looking for more titles soon. Great pressings...also glad these came in plastic inner sleeves....didnt have to clean them before playing.
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

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