Moving Coil Vs. Moving Magnet

My preamp has a MM phono stage and my turntable purchasing interest is peaking. What's got me confused is the difference between the two and making the smart choice here. Any help in explaining the advantages and disadvantages would be helpful in my final decision.

 

Moving coils:
**More money
**More detail and better overall sound (some exceptions exist)
**Can often have lower mV output so phono stage matching is critical

Moving magnets:
**Less money
**Less detail and overall sound but again exceptions exist
**Higher mV output so phono stage matching is much easier

It really depends on the cart you choose as there are too many exceptions and the current MM carts are really quite good. There are also High Output Moving Coils that sound very good.

 

Let me ask does anyone here prefer a MM over the MC?

 

I find that older records seem to sound better with a MM set-up, but it's really a matter of taste. The moving magnet cartridges are less "airy" than moving coil designs which also means that they are less likely to reproduce surface noise. I find that "airy" quality of moving coil designs to be less realistic than a properly set-up Shure cartridge. Again, there's system synergy to consider. Sometimes what a phono playback system requires is less detail and more of the overall gestalt of the performance.

 

MM setup is what I have and it suits me just fine. The whole point of everything is to get to point A to point B, etc. in the best way you can afford, possible based on your equipment, tastes, etc.

 

I use a Denon DL-110, a high-output MC, so it can be used with a MM input. Nice cart.

 

MC seems a little more "musical" compared with a MM (imo).

 

I use a MC now which I like a lot. I also really enjoyed my Grado Sonata MM. It was less neutral and did not have as much detail but it was still fun to listen to.

These days there are some really fine MM cartridges.

 

What are the compatability issues? Can MC carts be used on all MM tables and vice versa?

 

You can use either on any table, I believe. The pre-amp must be compatible.

 

MC cartridges tend to be lower compliance than Moving Magnets.

I have a SME III arm, a low-mass arm designed for the Shure V-15 series. Something like Linn's Itokk series of arms are higher mass, tend to work better with moving coils. In general this is true, there is a direct correlation of arm mass to cartridge compliance and it will audibly affect performance.

 

You are right. Most pre-amps that are built in inexpensive amps, etc. are moving magnet because of the lower cost of the moving magnet cartridges.

 

I still prefer my moving-magnets over the MC cartridges I've heard.

 

This is a really tough question to answer. I can say for certain that there is a camp of people who prefer MM to MC as a rule. There is also a camp that prefers MC to MM as a rule. It is very easy to get bogged down in technical and theoretical discussions that have little to do with real-world performance.

Personally, I have heard great examples of both kinds of cartridges and not so good examples of both. A lot depends on design and implementation.

Because the magnet in MC carts is stationary it allows them to have a smaller moving tip mass. Because they have a smaller moving mass, that allows them to have a faster reaction time to changes in the groove. So if you wanted to generalize you might say that MC carts sound faster and have better transient response than MM, this is more true of low output MCs than high output ones. But, many (most?) MC carts also exhibit a rising treble above 10 kHz, which can create a brighter sound. This is sometimes interpreted as being more detailed. The best MC carts will sound very fast and detailed without sounding bright, hard or etched in the treble. Lesser MC carts have a tendency to sound bright and relentless (but then one man's "bright and relentless" is another man's "fast and exciting").

MM carts need to have a greater moving tip mass, because the magnet itself is attached to the cantilever. Because the moving mass is greater, reaction times to micro changes in groove wall are not as fast as with a typical MC. The typical MM (again to generalize) will have a slight reduction in treble above 10kHz, coupled with slower transient response this can sometimes translate into a slow, dull and boring sound (but then one man's "slow, dull and boring" is another man's "warm and lush.")

Also, (again to grossly generalize) MM carts tend to require less VTF (vertical tracking force) and tend to be less prone to inner groove distortion than MC carts (although this is not a problem with a really good MC).

There are various ways for a designer of a MM cart to compensate for some of these shortcomings, including using a very powerful rare earth magnet so that a smaller magnet can be used in the stylus assembly, thus reducing tip mass. Using exotic, highly light and rigid materials for the cantilever (like boron or ruby) can also close the speed gap with MC (although many good MC carts use similar materials as well).

Then there is the issue, as other posters have eluded to, of output. MM carts tend to have much higher outputs than MC carts. This makes them easier to match to an inexpensive phono preamp. Getting 60 dB+ of amplification without adding a lot of noise is no easy task, so if running a low output MC cart, it is best to have a very good phono preamp. There are other issues involved here as well, but to simplify, I will just say matching a phono preamp to a MM cart is much easier than matching it to a MC (again, this is a generalization, and there are certainly exceptions).

Another issue is that while MM carts can have replaceable stylus assemblies (although not all do) MCs do not. When the diamond on a MC becomes worn, the cart must either be replaced or the stylus re-tipped professionally. When the diamond on a typical MM wears out, the user can easily replace the stylus assembly. So long-term, owning a MM cart tends to cost less than a MC.

My advice, if you are just starting out in vinyl playback, would be to go the MM or possibly high output MC route to start. A very nice high output MC cart is the Denon DL-110 (I have the very similar, now discontinued DL-160, and it is terrific). This cart combines some of the speed and detail of a good low output MC with the ease of use and relatively high output of a MM. It is an excellent deal at $140. MM options include the 2M series from Ortofon, or various Nagaoka carts. The Shure M97xE is very cheap, and stock sounds good, but a little on the dull side. With a Jico SAS replacement stylus it becomes an excellent cart at a still affordable price. It can be a bit difficult to get it set up to sound its best however.

Personally, I do not like the sound of Grado carts (too warm) or Audio Technica (too bright), although they both have their fans, and I imagine in the right configuration either could sound very good. As with anything else in hi-fi system matching is important.

Sorry to not be able to offer an easy/absolute answer to your question, but of course in real life things are rarely simple.

 

This is an excellent summary, and I agree that an MM cart would be the right place to start.

 

This is one of the most inaccurate statements about moving coils I've ever read. Ive just installed a Koetsu Urushi Vermilion MC cartridge and its one of the sweetest, lyrical and most musically engaging cartridges I've ever heard, along with the Dynavector XV1-S. It and the Dynavector are also better at not reproducing surface noise than just about any cartridge I've ever heard with the exception of a mono-only cartridge. While it's true there are some excellent moving magnet or moving iron cartridges e.g. the Clearaudio wood-bodies like the Maestro, etc., the Ortofon 2M "color" series like the Blue, Bronze, and Black, a Shure is not one I consider to be in that class. They track well, and they are flat in FR, but the ones I've owned are boring and notable for being musically UN-involving, not involving. Even my Grace F9E Ruby is a much more satisfying MM than any Shure I've ever owned or heard.

Floweringtoilet has given you a good description of the difference in design and construction betweeen the two.

For the OP, if you want to get a very good sense of what a good moving coil can do w/o the need to get a step up transformer or another phonograph stage that supports a moving coil, I would encourage you to get a wood bodied Grado, the Reference Sonata1 being the most notable and the sweet spot for cost for performance. Unlike Floweringtoilet, I really like these cartridges because they are musical as all get out, and do wonderful things in the midrange, and vocals like nothing else. They have excellent bass, and with the new 1-series stylus and motor design, have a beautifully sweet and extended top end that is never hard, edgy or bright. I don't know if Floweringtoilet has heard the wood-bodies or in particular, the new 1-series, but this was a big step up in the performance of these very fine moving iron cartridges.

Overall, though, the most musically accurate and musically involving carts I've ever heard are MCs, and the majority of MMs can't compete. Even a nice clean, used Shelter 501 MkII moving coils, which can be had for $500, is markedly superior to the majority of MMs of I've experienced. I've been living with a very nice clean one I bought used for $500 used for the last year, and until the Urushi arrived two weeks ago, it was my cartridge of choice, even compared to my Grado Reference Sonata.

 

This mirrors my experience with the Sonata as well although I have not yet tried the 1-series yet but I have heard the Statement flagship and there is certainly extended top end on that cart.

 

Yeah, Lee, I've got two Reference Sonatas, a "original" one, and the the 1-series Sonata as a mono, and with direct comparisons between them on the same table, my CA Concept, the new 1-series is a MAJOR improvement. Markedly better detail, with even sweeter and more musical highs. Whatever Grado did there really worked.

 

I've owned the Statement Sonata and Statement Sonata 1. I've also owned a Grado Red and had a Reference Platinum in my system on loan. All were frustrating carts for me in certain respects. While I admit that they did certain things very well (great in the midrange and with vocals), there were other times I was less enamored with their performance. There were times when I felt like the music was buried beneath a layer of syrup. I actually liked the Sonata 1 less than the Sonata and sold it after a few months.

But my comments should not be taken as a blanket condemnation of Grado carts. I would attribute it partly to personal taste (I like a livelier sound) and partly to system matching (I have relatively laid back sounding speakers and electronics). I have heard Grado carts sound spectacular in other systems. I think they work best with really excellent tonearms that feature adjustable damping like a good SME, but do not behave as well with an undamped arm like my Pro-Ject or Rega arms (from what I have heard). But I am working on the assumption that someone just getting into vinyl will not have a high-end SME tonearm, and I think there are safer recommendations than a Grado under those circumstances. In the right system though, they can really sing, I agree.

 

This is one of the most inaccurate statements about Shure cartridges I've ever read.

Kidding. Actually, not all Shures have a flat frequency-response. Many can be quite rolled-off on top with typical loading and, IMO, they also have some other idiosyncracies that can lead to a less-than-involving presentation.

I originally thought I was going to be a huge fan of Shures due to their technical performance so I tried first the V15VxMR and later the V15V-MR. Except with a handful of certain LPs, both ultimately sounded dead to me. I sold them and abandoned Shure for years. However, just for the heck of it, I decided take another shot at it and this time really dial it in. So I found a NOS Shure VST-III, which is essentially a V15VxMR body with the stylus of the original V15-V. As it turns out, there's a very narrow range with Shures when adjusting azimuth where the soundstage really blooms, spreads out in all directions, and the music seems to come alive. Now after meticulously adjusting azimuth, VTA, and the capacitance at the phono stage to get a natural-sounding treble, I'm liking the VST-III not only much more than the Shures I sold off but also more than a host of other cartridges including the aforementioned Ortofons and certain highly-regarded MCs. To my ears, it's definitely very sweet and quite involving.

But YMMV, etc, etc.

 

I've owned both and generally prefer MC even though I'm using a MM at the moment. Cartridge choice is a very individual decision. Unfortunately it isn't easy to listen to a wide range of cartridges at most dealers (much less in your own system!).

Since your pre supports MM I'd start with that. If you get the vinyl bug you can always add a phono stage down the road and explore the MC world or move up to a nicer MM cartridge.

 

Based on many user recommendations I purchased an Shure M97xE and ordered a Jico SAS stylus to go with it. The stock cart was okay, but had the an over-damped and somewhat un-involving sound that is typically associated with Shure carts. The Jico SAS stylus really changed the carts' presentation for the better, while retaining and even enhancing the virtues the cart already had (like outstanding tracking).

But as good as it it is, especially for the price, I do not think it is a great recommendation for someone just getting into LP playback. Getting the cart aligned properly takes more work than is typical, and to get really sound good it does need attention paid to both VTA and azimuth (VTF too for that matter). Once everything is dialed in, it sounds fantastic, but there are other carts that are more forgiving of less than perfect set up. For anyone willing and able to optimize its performance it is easy to recommend at the price, even after Jico's 40% price increase.

 

My next care will probably be a MC. I've been impressed by the more recent crop of them. They aren't as bright as I remember them to have been years ago.

 

Yeah, you're right. JICO SAS styli are nice. The M97xE with an SAS is a real bargain and excellent performer if you're willing to put the time into it. I find that when I do not pay attention to every detail, the music just kind of lays there flat. Audio-Technica cartridges with MicroLine styli are the same way except they can get out-of-control bright or "hashy".

I tried an SAS on the VST-III and it was really good. Still liked the original Shure stylus on it better though but I think that's because it is an older Shure stylus. The ones I've had from the 1980s have performed better for me than just about every one from the late 90s on up. I think QC slacked off a bit or they changed something in the materials.

 

I agree that it is much easier to start out with MM cartridges. There are far more considerations/variables to juggle with MC cartridges-- sufficient gain without noise, optional approaches to obtaining such gain (transformer vs. active gain stage), proper loading to prevent excessive top end peakiness is more critical with MCs, etc.

As for what I ultimately prefer, I like moving coils myself for their more realistic dynamics and sense of speed (sharp transients are delivered without the sound being blunted, and more open top end. Of course there are certain MM cartridges that can also deliver in these departments, such as the Decca London cartridges, but these have other tradeoffs (not great at tracking).

I currently have two MC cartridges, both of which I like about equally--a Lyra Titan and an Transfiguration Orpheus L. Both of these are not as warm sounding as the Koetsu Urushi mentioned above by Puma Cat. There is a considerable range of different tonal balance and other characteristics among the better moving coils, even with a particular brand (the Urushi Vermillion will sound quite different from an Onxy Platinum for example). It is hard to predict what one might prefer-- a lot depends on taste and on the equipment matched to these cartridges.

By the way, Grado cartridges are NOT MC cartridges. They are a form of moving iron cartridge, which makes them really a form of MM cartridge (the moving iron piece attached to the cantilever is an induced magnet). The Grados sound very much like something in the moving magnet family-- warm, musical, and smooth, but somewhat murky sounding and lacking in dynamic compared to the best MCs.