Moving Coil Vs. Moving Magnet

Some really informative posts on this thread!

I prefer MC for the detail, treble extension, soundstaging and sheer musicality they can reproduce. But some can sound a bit bass deficient and/or "etched" in presentation. The Shelters, Sumikos, and Koetsus I've owned have allowed me to relax into the music while still enjoying their positive attributes. Regardless, when things get really "busy," MC cartridges will unravel music better and allow you to hear deeper into the mix.

The best MM designs (Clearaudio, Sumiko are two) will get you 90% there and provide a very solid mid-range and low end to boot. In fact it is this driving mid bass area where many MM cartridges excel - and for rock fans, that may be more important than revealing the last bit of information that jazz and classical fans may require.

 

I think we can both agree that where cartridges are concerned, these are really so dependent on personal tastes, system synergy as you say, and table/arm combination. Particularly the latter as the cartridge/table/arm resonant frequencies thing gets into the mix. My comments about my Ref Sonata are in fact, based on using them in a damped SME arm, though I must say that my Sonata sounded great in my CA Concept as well. I have friends that really like a livelier, or even one, who really likes a colder sound. Back when I was first into audio, I valued neutrality over everything else, but as I've gotten older, I prefer things on the warmer side. While I liked my Shelter a lot, there were some things missing from it that the Grado had that I liked, a weightiness and fullness, as well as the bass. But the Grado, while very musical, sounded veiled and grainy compared to the Shelter. The Koetsu Urushi Vermilion has proven to be the best of both worlds...actually better, as it has more detail, resolution and transparency than the Shelter, but is very sweet and musical with a fullness and weight to the presentation I really like. And it sounds amazing on classical music, which, if you listen to a lot, like I do, is very special. I recently heard the Ortofon 2M Blue at a friends house the other day, and was impressed for what it did for $200.

 

Good points. My AT440MLa (MM) had great "punch" and tracked superbly, but after a while I felt I was missing something, so I switched to the Denon DL-110 (high-output MC), and think it is overall, a better cart. I read a lot of reviews before I made the switch.

 

If the stylus that came with my M97xE is any indication, QC is way off at Shure today. The diamond was mounted visibly skewed in the cantilever, necessitating a radical azimuth adjustment to get optimal cross-talk performance. The Jico stylus on the other hand is near about perfect...it's obvious there is a lot of pride in workmanship at Jico that is missing from Shure today. That said, there was nothing wrong with the body of the M97xE.

 

I very much agree. Even with the problems I had with Grados they did certain things so well that it was only with regret that I decided to move in another direction. That said, the Denon DL-160 sounded great in my system, and the Shure/Jico sounds great as well, both at a lower cost than the Sonata. I am finding the Shure/Jico brings back some of that weightiness and fullness (meatiness?) of sound that I liked so much with the Grado Statement Sonata, but without (so far) the shortcomings (occasionally sounding over-warm and slow).

The only issue I have with the Shure/Jico so far is that it is obvious that it really likes my records to be clean. I can't play a record that I haven't vacuum cleaned, otherwise the Jico stylus digs up every bit of dust buried in the groove. I've even found myself re-vacuuming previously cleaned records to get them sounding their best.

 

Yeah, you know, I've never heard a Shure with the JICO stylus, though I know they are very highly regarded. Just like the Japanese to take a cartridge and make the stylus even better than the OEM one and get the most the cartridge is capable of. My experience with Shures was way back in the days of the V-15 Type III, which, while never offensive, never got me involved, either. Granted, my arms back then do not have the adjustability of arms today. I moved on from the Shure to a Frank van Alstine modded Sonus Gold, and then, when the Grace F9E Ruby came out, it pretty much blew everything else I had ever heard in a moving magnet out of the water. I still have mine on my Rega Planar 3, it's been retipped by Peter at Soundsmith, and the amount of detail it will pull out of the grooves is amazing. But, like your JICO stylus, it wants a very clean record, also.

The Koetsu Vermilion has a stylus design that is exceptionally quiet "in the groove", much to my pleasant surprise. The only other cart I've heard that is like this is the XV-1S, which is one of the best carts I've ever heard.

 

I think Randy has nailed it with this post. Well done.

 

Yes. If you're looking for flat response go MM.

The only JICO stylus I tried had a rising top end - I measured it.

 

Without looking at any eq graphs, I've preferred MC to MM. The only MM that I liked was the Ortofon 2M Black, but I would buy a much cheaper Sumiko Blue Point No. 2 high output MC again over the Ortofon. The best carts I've ever heard were made by Lyra (all MC). Even their entry level cart had quality that was well beyond anything I've seen and heard in that price point.

 

So did I, and the SME III arm made making all those adjustments a whole lot easier. Without correct set-up, the Shure sounds like you-know-what. I lowered tonearm capacitance by hard-wiring Canare Starquad to the super-thin tonearm wires, bypassing the the RCA connectors to the cable to the phono pre. Probably dropped resistance as well.

The 97xe I'm now using responds very favorably to the Magic Eraser treatment, FWIW.

 

So far, every MC set up I have heard sounded thin at best. I have not heard that many, but I like rich and punchy and MC does not seem to do that IMO. I do believe the great Lees though that there are exceptions but I have not heard them.

 

Gain and weight
MC low mass ,low gain
obviously best
Capacitor cart better,like microphones

 

I've heard both type cartridges set up and for the type of listening I do, my budget, technicalities and convenience (notably replaceable styli) and overall quality of sound, I actually prefer the MM (moving magnet) cartridge. I heard a MC cartridge on a really incredible setup, but with the recordings that I'm used to hearing, it just didn't sound right at all (and no doubt, there are moving coils that probably sound really nice....but way out of all the aforementioned criteria). I've tried several different MM cartridges, and with the right combination of turntable/tonearm/cartridge, found the Ortofon Super OM to be my latest favorite. I've also enjoyed the Audio Technica (AT440ML) and Shures (M97 Era IV-"N97HE", V15-IV-MR, and V15-V-MR), and although I personally had bad luck with the Grado 8MZ (tonearm incompatibility), it sounded far better on my friend's setup. I also find the replaceable styli to be of great benefit (both for playing different types of records with different shape styli, and for styli and/or record "troubleshooting" purposes). Best of all, I was able to stock up on several spare styli for my Ortofon for as low as $20 each while supplies lasted (the Ortofon sourced Digitrac "NE" type) vs the Stylus 40 for around $240 or so, or the conical tip for mono or 45s for around $50 or so, not to mention the option of a 78 stylus if one so desires. Try that with a MC cartridge.

As for the MC (moving coil), for me, it has several strikes against it. Non replaceable stylus, thus having to keep a spare cartridge on hand or having to change cartridges if wanting a different stylus shape. Also, I've found the ones I've heard to sound a bit too shrill and thin, even if they do have incredible detail and response. Even if the latter issue is addressed, the former is still an issue, and regardless of either, prices are often out of my budget compared to the MM cartridges that I already enjoy.

...and I did hear about "strain gauge" or "semi-conductor" cartridges having a great sound to them, but unfortunately few manufacturers made them, and the one who made MM input compatible ones (Micro Acoustics) quit making them in the 80s, so that leaves little choice here. It's been said that the Micro Acoustics were better than anything, but because of unavailability of styli and said quality control issues? at one point, it's not a practical option. Still, it would have been nice if this type cartridge were adopted as the standard during the heyday of vinyl, had it been the superior design. ...Otherwise, I'll just stay with my favorite MM choice for now.

 

It would help to know what budget you're thinking for table and cartridge.

 

I dig MM, and that's what I've been using for over 20 years...but the MCs that I've heard are superior to me.

 

And here we all thought nothing was superior to you.

 

Ive never owned an mc I really enjoyed listening to, mm carts always seem to involve me more into the music. The mc carts I've tried have generally bored me after awhile, they just lack body and energy.

 

But your profile lists two Denon MC cartridges....

 

For those using a MM who would like to try a MC, and not worry about an MC input or step-up pre-amp, may want to try a Denon DL-110. Nice cart, around $150.

 

I would like to stay aroung the 3000.00 mark give or take unless the results were noticeably different than that will change that. My other equipment could be a possible weak link so i'm interested in a good fit without needlessly overspending. Clearaudio, Pro-Ject and Roksan tables are a few that look good to me. Claeraudio's Concept although gets great reviews leaves me feeling a little cold visually. Suggestions welcomed!

 

The main reason I see no need to change what I already have.

 

With a budget of $3K you have a ton of options. If you are new to vinyl I'd set a good deal of money aside for vinyl purchases. Hving more music will increase your enjoyment of a new table. Also, a record cleaning machine is IMO crucial. The Clearaudio is a great deal, and paired with a good MM or high output MC you'll still have plenty of money to buy records. If you're turned off by the looks of the Clearaudio, what do you like the looks of?