Muhammad Ali PBS bio series

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by beccabear67, Sep 23, 2021.

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  1. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    Nobody else watching this?

    Well, it's just completed tonight, in four parts, but I've somehow missed the third part. What I have seen has been a fair amount of stuff I never knew (which might not be saying much), but I'd say it's balanced and thorough, and will probably be the definite visual biography to sit next to the landmark one on Jack Johnson (Unforgivable Blackness).

    The real turning point of his career has to be that Manilla fight with Frazier where they are both wrecked at the end, and yet he came back for a third time against Spinks, and I actually remember seeing some of that on tv at the time (probably after people had watched live on closed circuit). He really made history and then should have stayed retired from there pretty much. Ultimately I think he was a good person, the kind of thing people say about Elvis, regardless of personal infidelities, but maybe I've just fallen for the charm offensive he could put on like many were? The ending was sad like life can be, the rain falls on the just and unjust equally sometimes, and there's something to the commentators who expressed some guilt of the price his form of entertainment which was on display at the Atlanta Olympics.

    I learned a lot, not just about boxing and boxers. I was a bit surprised the Zaire music festival tied in to the Foreman fight in '74 was pretty much absent, although it's possible there was something on it at the end of the third part I have missed. Nice to see the various dictators of countries some of these big fights took place in were not glossed over in the least anyway.
     
  2. m5comp

    m5comp Classic Rock Lover

    Location:
    Hamilton, AL
    It's probably still streaming on the PBS site, if you want to catch the part you missed. I watched it before it aired nationally using the PBS app on my Fire TV. I was surprised they left out the (apocryphal?) story in which he threw his gold medal into the river after being refused service at a burger joint because of his race.
     
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  3. EddieMann

    EddieMann I used to be a king...

    Location:
    Geneva, IL. USA.
    I’ve been looking for an existing thread on this for a couple of days now, thank you Beccabear. I am up to part 3 (was out of town for awhile). Ali was always a personal hero for me growing up and I got a chance to meet and interact with him in the mid-90’s. For that reason I’m probably biased but I think this is just an excellent documentary. He was as flawed as any of us I suppose. But his greatness in and out of the ring can’t be denied.
     
  4. Steve-oh

    Steve-oh Senior Member

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I've seen about half of it so far, it's pretty good and a typical Ken Burns effort. Jonathan Eig, who is interviewed a bunch in the film, wrote a very good book on Ali if anyone is looking for more (Eig also wrote a really good book on Lou Gehrig as well.)
     
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  5. DME1061

    DME1061 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Trenton, NJ
    I caught the tail end of Part 3 and all of Part 4. Excellent......will definitely catch up on all of it.
     
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  6. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    I expected I might lose interest after the early part as I thought I might've known most of the story from the Olympics onward, but there was a lot I didn't know. I wish there'd be more biographies on tv generally, as I found with Andre The Giant and Kiss, even if I didn't think I was much of a fan, interesting lives are always compelling! Hedy Lamarr I was a bit of a fan for her movies but did she ever have a story beyond that, and watching Ali there've been some surprises too; never knew the whole story of his draft status and how they'd changed it to take people they had passed on previously.
     
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  7. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    I just assumed a thread got evaporated.

    Missed a half hour here or there, but I liked it. It had enough boxing scenes to satisfy the fans/bring back memories, but not too much to repulse the wife. There are obvious racial issues here that can't be discussed, but teh info from the Supreme Court was fascinating.
    Memories listening to the Frazier fight in bed--a far off AM station was doing round by round replays after the round ended.
    My old man made a point to tell me many times he could get me in to watch Ali at Deer Lake (45 min away), but he wasn't going to lift a finger (cause he was a devout racist).
     
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  8. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    His crap fights the last 5 years or so were treated quickly, but in fact, they got lots of publicity at the time and he was a laughingstock as much as pitied. I'm sure those close to him felt like crying, but to many, he was just getting tons of money and doing very little in the ring to earn it. Kinda like what some here say about going to see Brian Wilson these last 3 years. He's a pathetic shadow and does very little, but you are seeing HIM in person.
     
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  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
  10. Panther

    Panther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Thanks for the notice. I'll probably see this.

    I'm quite interested in the portrayal of figures like Ali. He seems to have recently reached this sort of Lincoln/Kennedy post-murder status of the divine and pristine historical figure whose myth is collectively considered more important than his reality. This was underscored to me when I saw an interview with George Foreman in the UK where the British interviewer clearly had a saintly and reverential image of Ali... and Foreman completely went along with it, unwilling to insert a more balanced perspective (and also eager to hawk his Grill), probably because he knew it was impossible to discuss Ali realistically in mainstream media.

    (Weirdly, the same 'saint-ification' now seems to be happening to Malcolm X, as well.)

    I hope the documentary is mainly focused on Clay / Ali as an athlete. It sounds like it is.
     
  11. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Judging from your observations, I'm not sure you'll be pleased--which is NOT in any way a criticism of you. the last part for sure deals with the 'saint-ification'
     
  12. Panther

    Panther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    That's fine -- it's good to deal with Ali's stature and so on, as long as it's done in a smart way. (I guess it is.) I think I was trying to say that many of the media depictions of Ali recently are very simplistic and one-sided, but I'd guess a Burns' doc isn't.

    The criticisms of Ken Burns are really unwarranted, I think. All things considered, the United States is a better place for Burns's work. Credit where due.
     
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  13. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    There was more about Ali's relationship with Malcolm than I ever knew over the course of the series. Ali seems to have eventually gotten to a more universal view himself but it's sad Ali didn't get there a bit earlier as when Malcolm was killed he had been no longer speaking to him. Even the Nation Of Islam eventually changed toward that direction so that it seems they all agreed ultimately.

    The 'freedom of worship' tenet was put to the test by Ali and the 'in God we trust' nation mostly failed and then came around once the polls had changed on the Viet Nam war. Now we seem right back there again where some religions are less questioned than others. You couldn't do a bio of Ali without including all the things that made him news and a challenging figure. He is also shown being respectful and polite to anyone who showed him the same throughout his life with the major exception of ring opponents.
     
  14. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    Wonder why Laila Ali wasn't involved in it?
     
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  15. FritzL

    FritzL Adrift & Dumbfounded

    Location:
    Costa Mesa, CA
    Exactly what I was wondering. Anyone know the answer?
     
  16. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    I still haven’t heard or read anything why
     
  17. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    I've seen almost all of the Burns doc twice by now, except the first Foreman fight.

    Overall, it's excellent, and between Burns' work and What's My Name, the HBO/LeBron James-produced film from a couple years ago, I don't think another exhaustive Ali doc is necessary. What's My Name has a ton of footage of Ali's bouts, with something from almost every pro fight. Can't remember whether there's any material of his amateur years.
    Turns out Ali's biggest weakness was women. I don't remember much being said or reported about it when I was a kid in the '70s, watching him whenever he was on TV, whether he was fighting or not.

    Ali and Roberto Clemente were my biggest heroes in sports. Still are.

    It would be great if HBO would re-run their doc soon.
     
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