Multichannel AV receiver/preamp suggestion?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by pdxway, Feb 18, 2018.

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  1. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    I currently has a Pioneer SC-95 AV receiver as my multichannel preamp. It is pretty good. But according to my friend who has a highest end Yamaha receiver from about 10 years ago, I can do better. I can get more details from a better receiver. He suggests that I look into current top model AV receiver or multichannel preamp from Yamaha or Marantz.

    Also, when playing back sacd via my Oppo, the Pioneer would displays dsd pcm. It looks like it is not directly go from dsd to analog. Instead it transcodes dsd to pcm first. I was not too please with its performance when playing back sacd.

    For those who listen to multichannel sacd or like listening to cd using multiple speakers, which preamp would you think is a step up from a $1600 Pioneer receiver?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I would suggest looking at the Emotiva XMC-1. Before the XMC-1 I had AVRs and prepros from Onkyo and Denon with Audyssey room correction. The XMC-1 has Dirac room correction which does a much better job than Audyssey. I also found that the XMC-1 with 2 channel music was on a par with many 2 channel preamps I've had in my system.

    I listen to multichannel music (SACDs, DVD-A and Blu-ray Audio) quite a bit but listen to 2 channel music as such. So I couldn't comment on modes that the XMC-1 has for expanding 2 channel music. I can say that Dirac does an incredible job when listening to multichannel music. The XMC-1 will accept DSD Direct from my Oppo 105D.

    Music in the Round #73 Page 2
     
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  3. draden1

    draden1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    I second the XMC-1 and the integration of Dirac, it’s awesome for multichannel and I really like it for stereo too!
     
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  4. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    I'd also look at what Denon has to offer (I know Bill knew that was coming :D)...I know some of them when connected via HDMI go directly from DSD to analogue...not famiiar with the current Denon models but they had some excellent receivers that would play anything you throw at them and do a great job at it :righton:
     
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  5. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
  6. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Marantz AV8805
     
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  7. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Hi Caupina,
    Thanks for the suggestion!

    I have the same question that I asked Bill for you.

    Steve has this thread:
    SH Spotlight - Test the midrange purity of your system and/or your computer speakers using Bing Crosby!

    I know it is about the whole chain and not just a single component. But I am still curious. May I know if you can get the midrange magic as described by Steve using your Denon as preamp?

    Thanks again!
     
  8. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Hi SamS,

    Thanks for the suggestion!

    I see that you are using a Denon. You think the Marantz is better than your Denon?

    Thanks!
     
  9. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    The Denon AVP-A1HDCI is regarded as a very “audiophile” AV processor. However, it’s getting a bit older, with no 4K support. If that doesn’t matter to you, a used version is incredible bang-for-the-buck. The AV8805 is not out yet, but should improve upon the well-regarded AV8802A predecessor.
     
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  10. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I haven't tried that. Not much for listening to music off of the computer. If there was other music on disc that was in my collection that would be a good test I'd be glad to try it.

    I recently bought a Sony 5400ES CD/SACD player and have been listening to a lot of music. Quite a bit of jazz and some female vocalists on SACD. The sound quality is so good and the XMC-1 sounds excellent. All of it was 2 channel via XLR analog with the Reference Stereo mode. So I think there is a bit of "midrange magic" there but definitely don't have the listening chops that Steve has :).

    I think the best way to demo gear is to use your favorite music that you really know well. I did that on Saturday after adding the 5400ES to my system. My go to disc is Patricia Barber's Verse SACD and several other jazz SACDs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
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  11. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    I see. I am not currently worrying about 4K for my music centric setup. My current music setup TV is just a regular HDTV.

    I have another movie centric setup that has 4K TV, but we don't really watch that much TV anyway.

    I will ask you the same question that I asked others here.

    Steve has this thread:
    SH Spotlight - Test the midrange purity of your system and/or your computer speakers using Bing Crosby!

    May I know with your Denon as your preamp, are you able to get the midrange magic that Steve described? My current setup only would provide about half second of slight echo. No swamp of the PA echo.

    Thanks!
     
  12. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Since Emotiva has 30 days home trial, it will be on my demo list. Thanks again!
     
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  13. caupina

    caupina Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    I can’t say for sure. I currently own a Denon AVR4310CI which powers a pair of MA Silver 8 and it does a pretty decent job considering the MA are 4ohms. I’ve never used it as a preamp however I’m quite confident it’d perform well....in the end your ears will decide so do as Bill says and demo as many as you can.
     
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  14. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    If you're quick throw a bid on this XMC-1 on eBay :). But seriously if you look around there might be some good deals on used XMC-1s. The Emotiva warranty is transferable as far as I know.

    Emotiva XMC-1 7.2 CHANNEL AV PREAMP/PROCESSOR | eBay
     
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  15. I don't see anything wrong with your SC LX-95 Elite receiver, these Class D Pioneer A/V receiver sound great either with multichannel movie tracks and music and stereo music. Don't let numbers, specs or features fool you, you have a solid and great sounding receiver, I wouldn't change it unless I was willing to pay very big $$$ for a High End receiver or an A/V preamp plus several single channel or a multichannel power stage. I have a SC LX-76 A/V receiver from 2012 (also sold in the US with the Elite badge) and I'm not changing it unless I could double the budget I had to buy the LX-76 (2000 €) back in 2012.
    Don't let the DSD-to-PCM conversion put you down, most A/V receivers do it 'though don't state it either on the display or the owner's manual. Unless you can get 5 identical speakers plus a subwoofer placed at exactely the same distance from the listening spot you'll need distance compensation/delay and bass management which can not be perfomed on the DSD domain, is performed on the PCM domain and not always at high sample rate high bit depth resolution,this would need costly DSP IC's with huge processing power, and these IC's are not on home theatre A/V receivers unless you want to spend an arm and a leg. And the same can be said about room correction, it is performed on the PCM domain, not natively on DSD, and most of the time at red book resolution or maybe slightly higher resolution, but not at Hi Res as this needs, as I've said before, very expensive IC's with very high power/high speed computing.
    If you just want to try a change, then it's OK,but if you're really looking for a higher quality receiver that makes a huge difference quality-wise compared to your current Pioneer SC LX-95, save your money for other stuff like new and better speakers for example that may do a real difference,or just save your money and wait for Higher End receivers with the latest technology to become affordable. You have a great A/V receiver, I'd enjoy it without prejudice. The latest is not always the best.
     
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  16. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Thanks for the explanations about why receiver needs to transcode dsd to pcm!

    Yeah, newest is not always the best. My friend came over today and said that his older high end Yamaha has better details (using the same cd). It could be speakers too. But he said most likely is the receiver as he think my Paradigm speakers are excellent and my Parasound amp are good. He is an audiophile for much longer time than I am and he owns many high end receivers over the years. I also believe he has better hearing than I do. That is why I want to check if getting a higher end receiver/preamp would indeed help getting more details.

    Thanks again!
     
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  17. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Wow, I just checked and it is already ended.

    Since I want the ability to return the preamp in case it is not better than my current receiver, I think I will just buy it full price directly from Emotiva. Thanks for the link though!
     
  18. As I said, I don't think you'll get a REAL improvement unless you spend far more money than what you paid for your Pioneer, which in my opinion is an outstanding A/V receiver. It doesn't allow 4K HDCP 2.0 switching? Live with it and get an UHD BD player that has two HDMI ports, one for audio/video and a second one that only transmit audio for cases like yours or mine. The beautiful thing? Most (I'd say 99.9%) UHD BD players feature dual HDMI for this purpose.
    As I said before, enjoy your current Pioneer SC LX-95, it's a solid and great sounding receiver, and please, make yourself a favor and take what so called "audiophile" friends say with a pinch of salt, many times is not audiophilia, it's snobbery.
     
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  19. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Haha, thanks! I will take his advice with a pinch of salt. Yes, I do enjoy my Pioneer a lot. Like you said, may be getting better speakers is the answer. He did also suggest that I buy new 3 ways Paradigm for the front and use my current Paradigm Bookshelves as the surrounds. His fronts and surrounds are all 3 ways top of the line model in that brand.
     
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  20. The speaker change your friend suggested is good advice IMO. If you can afford them or you feel like "burning" some money on audio gear without later regrets, do it.
     
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  21. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Another "pinch-of-salt" moment. Paradigms are nice enough, but if you're interested in experiencing different brands of equipment, speakers are THE place to do it. There's a world of amazing speakers out there. Big variety of design approaches and sound characteristics.

    Check this online-only manufacturer: Ascend Acoustics

    Quality goods, not pricy, 30-day return policy (must pay shipping if returned).

    I own the lower-cost 340 series for my HT; they punch way above their weight. I will be back for their high-end Sierra line.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  22. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Thanks for the suggestion. His rational was pretty simple: matching all the speakers without spending too much. I have Paradigm Studio 10 and also has Paradigm Studio cc490 center (in my other setup). That means I only need to get another pair of Paradigm floor stander to get an all Paradigm 5.1 music system. This is likely cheaper than trying to get 5 new speakers.
     
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  23. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I think the idea of upgrading your speakers over buying a new processor is a good plan. The greatest improvements over the years of SQ in my system have been speaker upgrades. At times the differences have been substantial not incremental as with other component upgrades.

    I'd suggest looking at used Paradigms to get a feel for how much you could save over buying new. The front and surround speakers in my system were bought used and saved quite a bit of money. The Salk HT2-TLs (front R&L) are $4695 new plus shipping and I paid $3200 shipped. The Salk 1801TLs (surrounds) are $2795 new plus shipping and I paid $1200 shipped. Both sets of speakers were in excellent condition shipped in the original packing. With Paradigm being such a popular brand there should be a good selection of used speakers out there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
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  24. Billion$Baby

    Billion$Baby Forum Resident

    Location:
    IM AT WKRP
  25. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    Any Marantz NR-15xx or NR-16xx series sound very good & inexpensive.
     
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