Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

Was Wahoo from the master tapes and has anyone heard it? I'd love to hear a review of it since the CD version of Wahoo sounds bad -- a multi gen copy? There was some Music Matters promo copy awhile back that teased that one of the three newest LPs was from the lost master tapes. It wasn't clear if they found the master to Wahoo.

Also, has RTI sorted their quality control issues? I picked up Grant Green's Matador and there was a "thumping" in the lead in groove and static over the last few seconds of music on one side of the LP (and that's after a wet vacuum clean). I sent back Idle Moments because of bizarre static noises in some spots on the LP.

I also recently picked up some Resonance Records Lps pressed by RTI (Bill Evans / Wynton and Wes) on Record Store Day and found the pressings of have some noise.

Is RTI not using virgin vinyl? Are they using regrind?

 

Wahoo is apparently from a long lost mastertape so should sound great. With that in mind the CD might be from a multi-gen copy. Which CD are you referring to? McMaster?

The pressing flaws you're referring to sounds like non-fill. Not sure if it's still an issue, though it seems like there haven't been many complaints here for the last series.

 

That's great news if they found the master to Wahoo. Has anyone reviewed it and is it shipping?

I've heard 2 cd versions of Wahoo. The first was a old (McMaster?) transfer and the other was a more recent Japanese CD pressing. Both sounded like they had tape issues (dull with dropouts).

 

"Idle Moments" is one of the problem LPs I received from MM last year, and sent back for a replacement - however, I never got a version that played quietly, particularly in the title track, which of course has plenty of quiet moments.

 

Anyone else getting dropouts during the first track of Wahoo?

 

I'm surprised at the quality control lapses that are apparent in RTI pressings. Even the recent pressings (Resonance / Record Store Day 2017) are marred by noise.

Ironically, the Japanese Quiex / JVC / MFSL stuff pressed 35 years ago is dead quiet.

But 35 years later, RTI spews out noisy pressings and can't get it right.

Surely this problem goes beyond not having access to JVCs pellet formulation.

There are larger quality control issues at play for RTI (non fill). Also, are they using recycled regrind in their vinyl pellets?

 

I would suppose it to be problems originating with plating and/or pressing. I must say that the majority of the stuff I get that is pressed at RTI is very good - I've had far better success with LPs originating at RTI than most things from QRP, I must say. "Idle Moments" seems to be something of a problem child; I've read comments both here at SH.tv and on other sites mentioning the MM 33 version of this album to have issues with noise.

 

Yes. Idle Moments was a massive disappointment. The mastering was wonderful (better than any other version I've heard), but the noisy pressing sinks it.

 

The QRP Hendrix stuff I've picked up (such as Cry of Love) is well pressed. But other QRP pressings (such as the 2016 RSD Doors Aquarius) is ruined by off center records and noisy pressing. It's a shame because the brand new 2016 Bruce Botnick remix of Doors / Aquarius is wonderful -- it's just undercut by QRP quality control.

What's the story with these pressing plants? Can they not keep up with demand so quality continues to suffer?

 

I would guess that's it - the problems of running a relatively small pressing operation bumping up against a global demand for vinyl product...press 'em and get 'em out onto the shipping docks pronto.

 

I cant recall, is it the 33 or 45 (or both) of "Idle Moments" that has the pressing issues?

 

No issues on my Idle Moments. Absolutely quiet and flat. One of the most perfect pressings I've ever heard, to be honest.

I ordered it from ED in May 2015, so it might be a repress.

Seems like it's the MM 33. The 45 was done by AP a few years earlier.

 

I completely agree with your description.

 

35 years ago, the climate was much different.
Infrastructure was in-place, demand was high, machines were in tip-top shape, and the operators had real expertise. The Japanese had a lock on Q.C.

Non-fill is solely a consequence of rushing under a time-crunch. With patience and attention, it's gone.

Having started businesses, I sympathize with Ron. You have this great product that is being sabotaged by the pressing plant. You are trying to accommodate the neuroses of your customer base (I'll include myself here), and all the while, you're taking financial hits as the exchanges keep accumulating.

 

No one was making vinyl pressing machines a few years ago, all the equipment is vintage, taken out of mothballs or salvaged. I'm not sure that new pressing machines are made today. Right on about the experience of operators, and the ever increasing demand causes company management to push where that push only results in pressing quality issues.

Another big issue is the quality of vinyl. In the good ol' days, vinyl formulation contained lead (Pb). Lead made vinyl quieter and helped minimize non-fill. That is no longer permitted.

At some point, given the phenomenal rise in demand for vinyl records, new pressing machines need to be manufactured. That and better QC would go a long way toward improving pressing quality. I read recently, possible from a link in a post here that vinyl sales are soaring, while CD and even downloads are actually in decline. Investors are likely reluctant to invest in expensive new machines given how fickle the buying public is in regard to format. Vinyl, in the eyes of some, is just 'not my father's format', a passing phase. I don't believe that, but then, I am not putting millions of dollars on the line saying vinyl is the future format of choice.

Last year Music Matter renegotiated its pressing contract with RTI. I had hoped that one of the main objectives in the new contract was quality control. Clearly, MM pressing from RTI have caused Ron and company some heartburn.

 

There are new pressing machines being manufactured. Third Man just opened its pressing plant in Detroit with all new machines. However, most capacity at plants across the world is still on old machines.

There is obviously increased demand on pressing plants. However, that demand has not decreased the amount of time that a puck sits between the stampers. That time is computer controlled and constant, regardless of demand. Steve has discussed this. The idea that increased demand has caused an increased rate of "non-fill" is myth. It is simply not a perfect process, and there are countless variables that can affect pressing quality, but the time a puck sits between a set of stampers is not actually a variable; it is a constant.

Music Matters is fanatical about QC and has worked very closely with RTI, spending more time at the plant than any other boutique label I'm familiar with. Nonetheless, QC will never be 100%, and errors will get through. I will say that since Music Matters availed itself of the new vinyl formulation at RTI--the last six records released in 2015 and the 2016-17 series used this new formulation--I have not encountered any errors.

 

Here's Steve's comments concerning non-fill from earlier in this thread (post# 3154):

Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

 

The pressure to produce surely means there is less time available at any plant to ensure QC. Errors get through, all right - MM not excepted.

 

My 33 copy of IM, in the first batch, was perfect. But I was clearly lucky.

 

Not only was my first copy of "IM" noisy, the replacement (for which I paid return shipping) was no better, despite MM's assurance they had listened to it before sending it out. My problem with some of these pressings isn't nonfill, but LPs with excessive surface noise that cleaning doesn't effect at all.

 

The JVC SuperVinyl was indeed, superb, but turned out to be quite toxic for those involved in the manufacture of it.

 

I may have misunderstood your post, but non-fill can't be improved with cleaning.

 

There is an obvious difference in the mastering choices, but that being said, there is no doubt that the 45 is a sonically superior format. Detail, including dynamic information, is more clearly laid out and cut at that speed. The result is more pitch specificity in the bass, a more open midband, larger images, and smoother highs. It's just physics. The mastering choices, to your ears, may override the benefits of 45rpm in any particular case, but the 45rpm format is an inherently superior sounding format, not to mention that it's less prone to non-fill.

 

No, I was referring to other posters talking about nonfill as a pressing problem with some of the 33 MMs. Nonfill, of course, is another kettle of fish entirely. Some surface noise disappears when cleaned...not a darn thing can be done about nonfill!

 

Thank you for that clarification. I indicated that pushing production increased QC issues, not non-fill specifically, while I can see that the way I wrote it, that might be the natural conclusion. So for that, I stand corrected. Thank you for the information.

When you hold a MM release, it is obvious that Ron is obsessive about quality. And that, my friends, is why it so nice to have them around.