Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Here are my thoughts, gdv:

    Your system is, indeed, very modest. You won't get as much of a difference as someone else with a better setup. However, you'll get enough of a taste of what an absolutely 1st rate mastering and 45rpm cutting will do. I'd go for the 45rpm version, for sure. Yes, the Music Matters will have a nicer cover for those titles (AP has improved their cover design and execution since those releases, due to competition from MM), but you ought to hear the best possible version for yourself. The MM 33s are fine, but the 45s, regardless of AP or MM, are better.

    Try just one. Compared to the BN 75th, you should hear a more relaxed presentation with a richer, more dimensional instrument portrayal. Notice that the cymbals will have more of a shimmer and roundness. At 45rpm, your modest setup will have an easier time navigating the grooves as well.

    If you can appreciate the difference with your modest setup, it might inspire you to upgrade at some point and then you'll hear even more of a difference. Additionally, once one of the AP or MM reissues actually goes out of print, you'll easily be able to sell it at cost or higher if you decide that it's not worth the difference.

    If you really love both of these albums, buy both. Again, you'll eventually be able to get back what you paid, or close to it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  2. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    Thanks for all the input so far.

    So you think the AP 45s are the way to go for both Blue Train and Idle Moments? I’d seen some negative reviews of their Idle Moments with some pops and clicks. And lots of really positive reviews of the MM 33s.
     
  3. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    It's the music, not the potential ticks and pops, that is important. That would be like saying "Nah, I wouldn't want to see Coltrane live at the Plugged Nickel club. I might hear someone's foot shuffling or someone cough." Occasional ticks and pops (hopefully no more than a few) are sort of the way of life when it comes to vinyl. It's like saying "I like to drive, I just don't like to brake." Vinyl is an imperfect medium, but it's the most musical sounding one we have (other than reel-to-reel tape). What you don't want is a scratch, which will result in repetitive ticks over several or many revolutions, or a lot of non-fill (which sounds like a zipper). If you get one of those, send it back for a replacement. If you order the APs from Acoustic Sounds, they'll likely send you replacements without having to send the defective copy back.

    Regarding the 33s, they decided to make them pop a little more, brightening up the top end. Some listeners didn't like to have to get up every 10 minutes to change the side. But as time went on, many realized that the 45s sounded more like live, more relaxed and real. I got to compare the Music Matters 33 and 45 pressings of Unity by Larry Young. The 45 was better.

    Now, the Blue Train from AP is stereo, while the MM 33 is mono. Some prefer the presentation of everything at the center. It sounds more coherent than Rudy Van Gelder's tendency of placing instruments far left and right with his stereo recordings. He really wanted to get the sound of the instruments as directly into the ears of the listener as possible.

    Hey, if you want, go ahead and get Idle Moments via the AP and Blue Train via MM. Either way, you'll get a superior sounding album to the BN 75th, but in the long run, the 45s are sonically better, albeit subtly so.
     
  4. sunspot

    sunspot Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I haven't heard the AP 45's of the two titles mentioned but I have both of the MM 33's and they are superb.
     
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  5. sunspot

    sunspot Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Whenever this thread has a new posting, it alsways sends me shooting over to the MM web page.......which is a good and bad thing :)
     
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  6. garrincha

    garrincha Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Plymouth, UK
    this may be true of AP, but I think it's only fair to say that MM's returns policy and overall customer service is spotty, at best.

    this is something else to take into consideration - especially if you're paying top dollar for the titles mentioned above
     
  7. johnnypaddock

    johnnypaddock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lowell, MA
    I haven't looked at the site lately, but I personally wouldn't say either title is worth $50-80. They both sound excellent, but there are many other AAA reissues that sound just as good for a lot less cash. The AP Prestige series comes to mind, at $35 each. Of the two MM titles you mentioned, I'd lean towards Blue Train for now and look for the AP 45rpm version of Idle Moments if you can get it on sale.
     
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  8. bluejimbop

    bluejimbop Active Member

    Location:
    Castro Valley, CA
    Me too but well, you see, wuh ha' happen' wuz ...
     
  9. Piero

    Piero Member

    Location:
    Italy
    For Christmas I want to give myself 4 or 5 MM titles,which are the best of yours?
    I have on 33RPM Blue Train,Somethin' else,Moanin' ,Out to lunch,Speak no evil,Maiden voyage,Empirean isles,and on 45 RPM The real McCoy.
     
  10. Morbius

    Morbius Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    I'll suggest two, Hank Mobley - Soul Station and Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder.
     
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  11. johnnypaddock

    johnnypaddock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lowell, MA
    So many great titles to choose from... Some of my favorites are below. I prefer the 45's but as you know, they all sound great and you can't go wrong. I'd just listen to samples online and pick your favorites.

    Grant Green - Solid
    Andrew Hill - Point Of Departure
    Pete LaRoca - Basra
    Art Blakey - Indestructible!
    Joe Henderson - Inner Urge
    Horace Silver - Cape Verdean Blues
     
  12. Fender Relic

    Fender Relic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central PA
    Mine are mostly 33's...

    Tina Brooks-True Blue
    Grant Gren-Idle Moments and Matador
    Lee Morgan-Search For The New Land
    Bobby Hutcherson-Happenings 45
     
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  13. Gez

    Gez Well-Known Member

    Asking which ones to buy is an interesting dilemma - on one hand, almost all of the MM releases are worthy purchases if you love this period of jazz - however, on the other hand, they are not cheap and for someone with limited resources to spend on physical format music this could be an issue. Bottom line - you have to be guided by your particular position in life - if you have the extra cash, don't hesitate, these are amazing products which may soon be hard to find - but if you are still building your life (house, family needs, kids needs, etc.), hold off, those things are worth far more than a vinyl record at this point.

    If you are at the point where you have the disposable income, here are some of my very favourite MM releases -

    Tina Brooks - True Blue
    Grant Green - Idle Moments
    Dexter Gordon - Go!
    Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage
    Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles
    Joe Henderson - Page One
    Andrew Hill - Point of Departure
    Freddie Hubbard - Hub-Tones
    Thad Jones - The Magnificent Thad Jones
    Jackie McLean - Right Now!
    Hank Mobley - Soul Station
    Lee Morgan - Sidewinder
    Ike Quebec - Blue and Sentimental
    Wayne Shorter - Night Dreamer
    Wayne Shorter - Speak No Evil
    Larry Young - Unity
     
  14. MRT

    MRT Active Member

    Location:
    CT/US
    got my first MM release recently and im somewhat annoyed at the state of the vinyl. side A is perfect, but B is a complete mess. smudges, large scuff marks etc. really ugly. searching the thread here, i guess this isnt completely uncommon.

    side A played great. side B is mostly acceptable with some surface noise issues (that may well be fixed with a good cleaning), but its disappointing to receive new vinyl in this condition at this price. debating on returning it, not sure if giving it a cleaning would affect my chances at getting a replacement from Elusive...
     
  15. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    Which MM album was it?

    Cleaning shouldn’t affect returnability. I’ve returned stuff to amazon and always clean first to make sure it’s not something a cleaning would resolve.

    This is what makes me nervous to purchase an MM disc right now. $30 I’m ok with some slight minor issues, I know vinyl is imperfect medium etc. but at $65 a record, I’d expect the vinyl to be close to perfect.
     
  16. MRT

    MRT Active Member

    Location:
    CT/US
    Jazz Messengers - The Big Beat.
     
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  17. nosliw

    nosliw Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    It's likely an errant posting but the Music Matters pressing of Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil is up for "pre-order" at Sound Stage Direct for some reason here: Speak No Evil (Pre-Order)
     
  18. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Yep, been there since those titles were announced. This is one of the last six of the 2015 series that stores were not able to get after MM announced it was moving to a direct sales model. They may have softened that stance since--I know Waterloo Records in Austin has been able to get these--but anyone looking to order from soundstagedirect.com should give them a call to confirm.
     
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  19. nosliw

    nosliw Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Thank you for the information, Gabe! I placed an order last night and I just sent an email to Sound Stage Direct to confirm if they're able to get this LP.
     
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  20. bigtyke66

    bigtyke66 Active Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Well over a year ago I placed a pre-order with SSD for this album and then waited for months. I eventually called and was told they didn't know when it would ship. So I cancelled it and bit the bullet with an order to MM. Got it in days, but obviously paid more than the SSD price. But it's a fantastic album, really well done.. Don't regret it at all.

    I've ordered a ton of stuff from SSD, and never had a problem , except with this album. If they list something as a pre-order, you would hope they would have some idea that it will ship at some point. But FWIW, that wasn't my experience.
     
  21. arandy

    arandy Member

    @Piero
    You've got some pretty choice titles going there to start with...

    Some favs:

    Art Blakey - Free For All (sounds heavier than most rock bands)
    Art Blakey - Indestructible (prefer the 45rpm)
    Elvin Jones - Puttin' It Together (insane bass sound whereas many titles as we know are kinda muffled)
    Grant Green - Matador (only have the 33 and it smokes)
    Grant Green - Idle Moments
    Joe Henderson - Inner Urge
    Freddie Hubbard - Ready for Freddie (have both - found the 33rpm to be as good as the 45)
    Jackie Mclean - One Step Bey0nd, Destination Out, Right Now (all three are incredible, and are very well recorded, RN is hallucinogenic)
    Hank Mobley - The Feelin's Good (of course Soul Station and Workout and more known, but this is my go to over time, great grooves)
    Lee Morgan - The Procrastinator (Leeway is great also)
    Bud Powell - The Scene Changes (incredible sound)
    Ike Quebec - Blue and Sentimental (so gooey it's almost comical, but phenomenal)
    Larry Young - both Unity and Into Somethin' (33rpm of Unity is just as awesome - just nuts how the density of organ tones translate and swing)
    Andrew Hill - Point of Departure - 33rpm just as good as 45 (this record is amazing, uniquely dark and complex, the last track is one of the most mournful jazz pieces I've ever heard)

    ...to name a few. Like many on here, ya start listing and you feel like you are doing a disservice to all the others! I have almost the whole set of both 33 and 45. The reason some of the later 33's sound as good as early 45's is due to mastering chain upgrades and refinement of their process over the years). Ya can't go wrong really once you sample stuff online if not familiar. Others just won me over due to the sound quality alone as the performances are so well presented. MM, for all of its funky pricing now, is tops in my book. Cheers.
     
  22. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    After mulling it over a few weeks and hemming and hawing, finally pulled the trigger and ordered my first two - Blue Train and Idle Moments from the music matters site. Already plotting out upgrading the other 10 BN75 titles I have down the road....
     
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  23. Fender Relic

    Fender Relic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central PA
    Like The Corneilius Brothers and Sister Rose sang.....It's Too Late To Turn Back Now. I believe,I believe,I believe you'll be falling in love.
     
  24. recstar24

    recstar24 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Thanks everyone for the most recent posts on your MM recommendations, and those that I've conversed with in PM. Through MM and used vinyl here I'm at 9 MM's currently, all within the past month lol. And yes I snagged a few from the AP sale :)
     
  25. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    I figured! I don't think my set up is really good enough to make the most out of these yet, I'm investing in them now so when I do have a better set up down the road, I'll already have these.
     
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