Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Are there particularly good sounding versions?
     
  2. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    No idea. Just have the old Rare Groove CD reissue, I believe a Ron McMaster job. Good enough to enjoy. I'm sure it could be bettered, though.
     
  3. blunosr

    blunosr Forum Resident

    Longwinded review of my Kenny Drew Undercurrent, MM 33/3 pressing:

    This holiday season I had a few ideas of a handful of sweet lps to pick up. I am going for quality now (birthdays and special occasion audiophile buys) instead of quantity as my wife is finding my growing collection encroaches into the living space of our small apartment and I am trying to spend less over time.

    So I perused various boards and saw the note a kind poster mentioned for MM sales at deepdiscount.com: http://www.deepdiscount.com/search?q=Music+matters+(bluen+&mod=LA
    **Note to Canadians: D.Discount will not charge you for duty!

    I had only 2 MM pressings prior to this- the 45RPM Empyrean Iles and the 33 1/3rd of Something Else and while Empyrean Iles is beautiful, I bought it used so it was just shy of perfect. Something Else is a wonder to behold as the musicians, improvisations, production, pressing and manufacturing blew me away and holds steady in the "top 5 best sounding lps I own" list.

    So I chose a lower priced lp this time round; Kenny Drew's Undercurrent. This was based on limited research and no actual knowledge of the music. Hey, a good deal on audiphile pressigns is well worth the risk right? I previewed the album on Youtube as I was eagerly anticipating arrival and loved the music!

    Last week copy arrived well packaged and was a beauty visually as most MM pressings are. The music is where I was let down though. It was late so I gave her the old headphones analysis, and immediately those MM complaints that I find are in the minority began to appear.

    I was hearing a click every 3 minutes for example so I pressed reverse and sure enough it was not just random dust from my couch, but a flaw direct from the plant. Other issues from side A came from the last track, Pot's On, where I heard a click every 30 seconds, I was struggling to hear the bass and droms, and the horns seemed distored. So I went to bed in a huff.

    Today I used my lower end system (Marantz 90's amp, MTS speakers) and had a much better experience. There were a few noticable clicks but the first track rocked much more and the soundstage and stereo field were huge and wide. My amp pumps the bass up unaturally which actually helped the last track, so I was pleased to not have to return such a great album. I plan to wash the thing before I play it to death and hope that the clicks get sorted that way.

    My theory is that headphones, in fact all recordings tell us what was recorded, not the actual acoustic sounds made by the instruments. You don't wear your headphones in front of a sax to hear it; in real life you listen to the sound waves coming out of it through the air. In my view that's what your speakers are doing. Pushing air and giving life to the music and making it sound more like the live experience good music should be.

    I've listened to a few great pressings that I thought were really quiet through headphones and I think I will save that sort of listening for digital tracks. In conclusion, as with all new lps - Buyer beware!

    Cheers,
    I.F.
     
    nosliw likes this.
  4. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    I got undercurrent in that sale too. I had no pops clicks and all that but I do notice that has less bass presence than my other MMs. I chalk that up to the recording itself. I love the music on it so it doesn’t bother me.

    I did have the pop and click thing after two cleanings on Ike Quebec’s Blue and Sentimental and it drove me crazy. An adjustment to my tracking weight helped. But I also realized I was listening either on headphones or really close to the speakers (small office space where my setup is) and that the song I heard it the worst was a quiet song, so you’re hearing more of the noise inherent in it. Once I backed up and listened not so close to the speakers I didn’t notice every tick.

    I also decided if I needed flawless then maybe I should look at hi res digital not vinyl. I do believe that a $50 record should be pretty close to perfect, if the Beatles mono can be that good these should too. but that some imperfections and ticks may be unavoidable and not worth a return
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
    bluejimbop likes this.
  5. Lucca90

    Lucca90 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SouthAmerica
    MM45 are 99% defect free
    Hi res or noisy vinyl is a false dilemma IMHO
     
  6. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Digital is not flawless. It has different types of flaws than vinyl.
     
    recstar24 likes this.
  7. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    Just curious what flaws you see in digital? If the same mastering is used on vinyl and digital for example? I’m not an expert in this stuff so I’m just curious
     
  8. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Digital playback, moreso with CDs, has some limitations, including frequency response, an often more brittle tonality, and an often more sterile sense of musicality. The latter stuff is sort of hard to measure, but it's there. Some listeners, for sure, appreciate the lack of potential wow and flutter, as well as surface noise and ticks and pops, not to mention inner groove distortion. Better audiophile pressings help with some of those factors.

    But those who prefer analog, whether it be LPs or reel-to-reel hear a sterility, a tonality that's off, particularly with strings and cymbals, as well as a stilted sense of musical flow. Those would be considered flaws to certain listeners.

    If it hasn't been measured, does that mean it's not there? Analog proponents say that deficiencies in digital are there, but we have yet to find a way to measure them. (I personally know musicians who simply prefer recording analog in the studio, even if their work is going to be transferred to digital. And then there are musicians such as Gillian Welch who swear by AAA all the way.). She painstakingly personally managed the process of putting out her Harrow And The Harvest album on vinyl recently, AAA, with stunning results. The CD, reportedly, doesn't come very close.

    The Harrow & The Harvest LP
     
    wellers73, nosliw and guidedbyvoices like this.
  9. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    Just ordered True Blue and Night Dreamer. And looking forward to digging through more of the titles on Apple Music to see which ones I'll need to grab next. I want some Hank Mobley but the $65 price tags give me pause.
     
    Fender Relic likes this.
  10. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Do you have a Roll Call? If not, you should :) $50 for the 45 rpm. Workout is fantastic and was my first foray into Mobley as well as introducing Grant green to me but it's $60 for the 33 rpm.
     
    Bryce likes this.
  11. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    I haven't heard roll call but will check out out. I love Workout, thats tops on my list, followed by Soul Station.
     
    recstar24 likes this.
  12. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    Maybe checkout the Analogue Productions Prestige Mono of Mobley's Message and Mobley's Second Message.
    Amazing quality and top notch reissues, that Prestige Mono Series.
     
    Maccamera, Bryce, bluejimbop and 4 others like this.
  13. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Good to hear! Overall how good is the series? I love the AP blue notes, I have a few Verves, Impulse, but no prestige series as of yet...
     
  14. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    The Mono Prestige Series is great. They really stepped up their game on the sleeve quality and the Mastering and Pressing Quality is everything you would expect from AP.
    I only have the Mono Series, though. Haven't picked up the Stereo Series.
    Yet.

    I also have had really good luck with the Classic Records Blue Note Monos. But they are not nearly as consistent as the MM and AP releases when it somes to pressing quality.
     
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  15. Michel Jazz

    Michel Jazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    The music from Roll Call is fantastic without a doubt, but sound wise compared with Workout 33rpm or Soul Station 45 or 33rpm (I have both) Roll Call does not sound as great.
    Its' surprisingly disappointing, considering the recording date.
     
  16. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    Roll Call was a bit of a disappointment sound wise when I got it and I also have the AP 45 of Workout which is even worse. I still enjoy them both but Soul Station is the best crafted of the three.
     
    Maccamera likes this.
  17. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    How is the 33 of Workout? Big improvement over the 45?
     
  18. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    My copy of Undercurrent MM 33RPM pressing did have some pops/clicks on the first song on Side B but otherwise sounds all-around. I'll have to get around and clean it with my Nitty Gritty RCM. And speaking of Cannonball Adderly's Somethin' Else, my 33RPM MM pressing just arrived at my doorstep last night so I'll have to give this one a spin sometime!

    And cheers for the deepdiscount.com link!
     
  19. Michel Jazz

    Michel Jazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    I certainly like it a lot. The AP45rpm arrived a week ago but I still need to spin it against the 33rpm MM release...
     
  20. David Beckwith

    David Beckwith Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I think Roll Call just isn't the best recorded Blue Note in general. It's never going to sound as good as Soul Station unfortunately based on several copies I've heard.
     
  21. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    It sort of has a bleached quality to the sound. It lacks color.
     
  22. Johan1880

    Johan1880 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
  23. Michel Jazz

    Michel Jazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    I can not say that the 45rpm sounds better than the 33rpm, I concentrated myself on 1 song 'Smokin' and when I heard it on the 45rpm I thought; wow that is poorly remastered.
    When I played the 33rpm you can hear the sax more upfront. But again I can't say that this is awesome. 45rpm Same defaults; the sax has a constant onpure sound, a sort of light distortion all the time. Also when Hank finished his first part you definitely hear that RVG turns the knobs on his mic. For a 1962 recording this is far from Rudy's best work... The players are all awesome no doubt about that, but the recording...
    Both releases here are good but not great. On the 33rpm I like the way they put the Sax more upfront , the 45rpm does have a very little bit more detail.
    This is actually an album I would never use to show my gear ...
     
  24. nosliw

    nosliw Delivering parcels throughout Teyvat! Meow~!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    I was outbid for a copy of Art Blakey's Moanin' MM 33RPM pressing at the last minute, but I just won a copy of Sonny Clark's Cool Struttin' MM 33RPM pressing through eBay! I can't believe I'm starting to get addicted to Music Matters at a wrong time. :nyah:
     
  25. guidedbyvoices

    guidedbyvoices Old Dan's Records

    Location:
    Alpine, TX
    I hear you on that. Wish I’d found MM 1-2 years ago even. The good thing is , as a newcomer to Blue Note, it’s making me dig deeper into titles on Apple Music to see what I kinda like vs what I love a whole lot and have to have the deluxe version of it. its also making me plot out my buys so it’s not just collecting stamps.
     

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