My experience with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon TT

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BKphoto, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    You make a very good point, and you are absolutely taking the safe route. I do freehand my arm, and suppose I have gotten used to doing so, which is why I had such trouble with the Carbon.
     
  2. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    Just a quick note. When I removed my screws from the motor, the hum was much worse, so if that fixed it for you, consider yourself very fortunate. I actually got the factory tech on the phone, and we tried all the little fixes, other than sawing the motor area of the turntable off, as was done on the YouTube video. I have to give kudos to the man that did this, he exhausted at least $500.00 worth of labor and materials trying to do away with the hum, by sawing the entire motor assembly away from the rest of the table, and the darn thing still hummed, but it was just very entertaining to see the lengths this man went to, it was amazing.
     
  3. Russell Weston

    Russell Weston Active Member

    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    That's so weird. Because the screws clearly couple the motor assembly to the plinth and introduces vibration. Now it is quite literally "whisper" quiet.
     
  4. xantus

    xantus Active Member

    I will say my debut's counterweight is quite rock solid, I check it every couple months and it is always the same.. and I bump or drop my arm at least once a week ;D
     
  5. Interesting. You have personal experience with their higher end models with noise issues?
    I have to confess that at one stage my current Project did appear to have developed a rather nasty hum after I'd moved it and the rack and changed to a LOMC cartridge. After much head scratching it turned out the fault lay with my $700 (2nd hand) cables which decided they were radio antenna. Put in a set of Audioquest Panthers and no more noise.
    I'm not excusing any issues that the particular Project model this thread was created for have, but often question how many times noise issues are caused by factors other than the table its self.
     
  6. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I spoke directly to someone that had one of their models in that price range. He didn't notice the motor noise until he plugged in a pair of headphones. I suggested something was wrong (a $1500 TT shouldn't have motor noise) and that he call the manufacturer. He called their UK distributor and the distributor said Pro-Ject themselves says motor noise is to be expected on these models.

    RFI and motor noise aren't the same thing.

    Pro-Ject knows that their models have motor noise and doesn't give a ****. Like I said, I considered buying one at various points in time and ultimately decided not to based on my research.

    Doubt I would touch a Pro-Ject with a ten foot pole unless I got it for free as a gift.

     
  7. Fair enough-interested if it was a model with an enclosed or stand alone motor. I listen extensively via headphones and have never noticed any motor noise on either of the Project tables I've owned.
    I'm not an apologist for shoddy production or workmanship but having worked for a major ,very highly reguarded Japanese motorcycle franchise for nearly 40 years, I accept the fact that every manufacturer ends up with models in the closet they'd rather forget. The choice for the maker usually comes down two issues. Are there enough complaints to warrant a recall, something that is usually triggered by health and safety issues, or do they suck it up and deal with it on a warranty basis.
    I don't know the laws in the USA but here we have at least one year from date of purchase where the item must prove to be fit for purpose. Manufacturers warranties may be longer than that. I am surprised that people who purchase these tables don't return rather than continue trying to cure any faults.
    It would be interesting to know how well these issues are handled by various importers. If problems aren't being reported back to the factory in a forceful manner then improvements aren't likely to happen.

    Just a side note- Project isn't alone in having issues with motor noise. I owned a Michell Focus One that had the motor mounted in the plinth and that was also plagued by noise from the motor that was just loud enough to be irritating during quiet music passages. No amount of playing with motor mount and positioning managed to cure it, one reason I sold it.
     
  8. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    IIRC it was the 2Xperience SB model that was less than 2 months old. Not a standalone motor, but I believe it is supposed to be isolated from the plinth with a small gap around it or something. Not exactly sure. Re: the models with the standalone motors, I had an opportunity to buy one of those second hand for a favorable price. Decided not to after reading too many reports of motor noise that developed after a year or two of use. Don't recall the model.

    This is understandable, but the main point of this thread is an iteration of one of Pro-Jects most popular models and AFAIK, one of the most popular new turntables out there. They should've had plenty of opportunity to correct these issues over the course of at least 4 or more iterations but can't make it happen for some reason. Sure it is an entry level model for the company, but that is no excuse in my book.

    Of course, still no excuse though. Enough people are noticing this that it's a problem for a lot of people, just like all the threads and videos all over the internet show.
     
  9. xantus

    xantus Active Member

    on the one hand I love the simplicity of the project headshell design.. but I have a feeling my next table choice will be one with a standard mount..too many carts in this world ;)
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  10. xantus

    xantus Active Member

    the main reason i went with the Debut was the completely black design...I think the chrome look is ugly :hide:
     
  11. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Hahaha. Actually, Pro-Ject had a preview catalog around the time their new RCM was announced and there were pictures of less expensive, entry level turntable models with an S-Shaped tonearm w/ removeable headshell. I'm not sure if those are out yet.
     
  12. Off topic I know but there's a really interesting review of that particular Project TT at TNT Audio.
    [Review] Pro-Ject Signature 12 Turntable »

    occasionally I look at my bank account and say I can afford that, then a little voice pops up reminding me that I'd then want to upgrade my cartridge, phono stage etc etc,
     
  13. Folloni

    Folloni Active Member

    Location:
    Curitiba, Brasil
    I didn't remove them, just loosened them a bit and the hum is gone. I'm happy with my turntable again.
     
    quicksilverbudie likes this.
  14. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    My friend, you need to send your turntable back to the manufacturer so they can see why hundreds if not thousands of Carbons are still humming and yours is not, no kidding.
     
  15. wownflutter

    wownflutter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kokomo Indiana
    If you read my earlier posts in this thread, I used quite a few rubber spacers in various locations to tweak the hum to as low level as possible. I used a spectrum analyzer and an lot of trial and error.
    I never totally cured it, but it was considerably better. Believe it or not, I moved the table to another room with a concrete floor and the hum was gone. Now, I didn't remove my modifications, but I find it interesting that there was such a difference. Makes me wonder..........

    Now the hum is gone for good. I sold the table
     
    Trapper J likes this.
  16. Trapper J

    Trapper J Forum Resident

    Location:
    Great White North
    Can you post photos of the screws you're talking about?
     
  17. Trapper J

    Trapper J Forum Resident

    Location:
    Great White North
    This is my problem now as well, if my place is really quiet, and I happen to hear any hum, it gets to me.

    It's a shame because otherwise this is a great tt. I just wish with all this "hum" talk surrounding it, pro-Ject would release a checklist release of possible remedies
     
  18. Henry Phillpotts

    Henry Phillpotts New Member

    Location:
    Oxford, UK
    Folloni likes this.
  19. McGuy

    McGuy Active Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    I've had mine for almost 2 years, no hum at all...
     
    johnnybrum likes this.
  20. nosliw

    nosliw Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    When I used to own the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (non-DC), I had the humming noise that I noticed while recording some of my LP's to my PC. I replaced the rubber o-ring that holds the motor in place since it was broken all of the sudden and removed the transportation screws and the humming was completely gone.
     
  21. katstep

    katstep Forum Resident

    Pictures of all these mods to make the hum go away would be great! I've got one of these as a backup turntable and was never really fully able to get rid of the hum.
     
  22. Russell Weston

    Russell Weston Active Member

    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    unfortunately this form no longer allows us to post photos apparently. Just links. When you take off the turntable platter, there is two sorbothane domes underneath the "wings" of the motor mount. I removed those, and it was instantly quieter
     
    nosliw and Trapper J like this.
  23. Trapper J

    Trapper J Forum Resident

    Location:
    Great White North
    I'll take a look, but when I looked for these screws last time I read about this, I was pretty sure the screws were necessary for the motor mount.
     
  24. Folloni

    Folloni Active Member

    Location:
    Curitiba, Brasil
    Try to loose them a little first, it solved my problem.
     

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