My new article series on MQA.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LeeS, Jan 9, 2018.

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  1. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    SoCal
    Well worded post.

    I must add that, if your opinion, Stuart is an innovator, so be it. But as a businessman and CEO he is a disaster. Meridian is an utter failure as a business.

    This must be mentioned because many have explored the motives behind MQA. Many feel MQA was a last ditch effort to save a sinking ship.
     
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  2. firedog

    firedog Forum Resident

    He's an Australian Labradoodle. That's a puppy picture with short hair. Longer hair now, lighter color - looks even better. Great family dog if you are looking. Non-shedding coat is high maintenance, though.
     
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  3. soundQman

    soundQman Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    I believe this to be true. I think it also highlights the importance of trained or practiced listening in order to perceive differences between masterings and/or equipment, especially if those differences are subtle, as presumably they would be in the case of amplification electronics or wiring. This is potentially a case where controlled listening tests using an average cross-section of untrained listener/participants may not be able to accurately or reliably identify preferences for, or identity of, one sound or another. Statistical significance criteria related to such listening trial results seem to assume that every listener is average or typical and that the statistical trial results apply as criteria of validity for all listeners. Except in extreme cases, I cannot hear differences between wire or even type of connection (such as fiber-optic vs. coaxial copper). I don't claim special hearing or listening acuity for myself, but others with more comparative experience and training, or better hearing, may well excel in this function.
     
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  4. soundQman

    soundQman Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    My local audio dealer used to carry Meridian products but finally dropped them in frustration because of reliability problems with their equipment and the (he claimed) poor support of their products and dealers. That being said, I have had no such frustrations with the particular models I own - they work very well.
     
  5. Claude Benshaul

    Claude Benshaul Forum Resident

    Perhaps it worth mentioning that other solutions to stream higher quality audio while saving bandwidth already exist. One is AAC for example which certainly enjoy a wider acceptance than MQA and is compatible across a wider variety of platform and devices. I'll let to other more knowledgeable members the privilege to explain why these solutions were never suggested or used by commercial streaming services.

    But please, continue with the next episode of the fairy tale in which Lady Bandwidth needs to be rescued by the MQA knight in shining armor. I'm really anxious to learn how desperately the lady in question really need rescuing and how much brasso is needed to polish the tarnish away from the knight's armor. The Inconvenient Truth Dragon is getting ready to make another pass and the suspense is killing me.
     
  6. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    SoCal
    When I lived in New York, there was a dealer with a stack of Meridian gear to the ceiling he never could sell..
    he had it on a their used list forever..never sold one piece..finally gave up.
     
  7. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Why is a non shedding coat high maintenance? I'd think that's better than dog hair in everything you own...

    Forget formats we would never have heard of if it wasn't for shill posters in forums. This is now a labradoodle thread.
     
  8. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan Thread Starter

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Oh please. I meant "we" as in the forum members would soon add the new streaming service to the list of participants. It's a reference to the major streaming players.
     
  9. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan Thread Starter

    Location:
    Atlanta
    The music component to the videos and the video volume being heavy.
     
  10. Closing in on 30 pages and I still haven't seen anything that convinces me that MQA is anything more than yet another attempt to make money for those on the inside.

    I listened to the spiel put out by one of the "Engineer/Marketers" at an audio show over a year ago (can't remember his name or title, but he was extremely well versed in the technical jargon). Unfortunately, the system that they chose to Demo on was not my cup of tea. I didn't like how it sounded earlier in the day with non-MQA material, and I didn't like how it sounded with MQA sources during the Demo. Obviously, nothing conclusive..... but it made me wonder - Why Demo it on such a system? Why not go to a better room with better (more neutral) equipment?

    I hope that MQA falls flat on its face. This (and any other future similar attempt) is why I continue to favor physical media.

    I hope that our Host and other similar minded Engineers/Recording Engineers/Labels continue to turn out high quality media that I can purchase whenever I am so inclined. I'm willing to wait until it is produced and shipped to me. I don't need instant gratification.

    I wonder how many more pages this discussion will go on before it just gets closed due to endless bickering, and now, insults to opposing POV Members. SMH.

    Ah well, good for :-popcorn:.
     
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  11. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan Thread Starter

    Location:
    Atlanta
    1. Meridian is losing some money at its UK operation. Does that subsidiary represent Meridian financials as a whole?

    2. Archimago is finding fault on aliasing but Stuart is using new neuroscience studies that show that timing is more important than aliasing artifacts. Stuart and team are making a conscious decision to favor timing improvements based on these studies. I am not convinced Archimago is fully up to speed on these studies like Stuart is.

    3. It's impossible to understand Archimago's depth of expertise and experience because he hides behind an anonymous user name and we don't see his educational credentials or published papers like we can with others.

    4. MQA rightly does not reveal trade secrets for at least two good reasons: it could break the authentication process which the labels value and it could diminish the value of the business. So you are accusing Bob's team of just being good business people.

    5. My opinion is informed by discussions with many people in the audio business and in many cases, multiple interviews. I feel very good about the investigative work I am doing right now.
     
  12. Claude Benshaul

    Claude Benshaul Forum Resident

    Do I understand correctly that one expertise should be dismissed unless he display a I Love Me wall of certificates for our admiration? I really wish you would stop with this line because it make it sound as if we are unable to discern facts from fallacy without a blessed anointed ready to show us the right way.
     
  13. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan Thread Starter

    Location:
    Atlanta
    You can't have it both ways Howard. You challenge my view of plentiful innovation in audio, I provide concrete examples, then you criticize my even bringing up concrete examples.
     
  14. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Bob, Bob, Bob. Sideshow Bob.

    I don't think Bob knows too much about neuroscience. In itself, that's not a problem if he knows someone who can advise him.

    Unfortunately, I think he's pulling a fast one nonetheless. The latest big thing that's supposedly a problem has been dealt with by the video in demand services already.

    I've been through so many of these latest big thing moments in audio, that I despair with the community that gives it a pass without critique. That's the problem with MQA. Nobody outwith the forums and some manufactures is calling this out. The hifi journalists, the serious ones I mean, the real pros, aren't by and large doing anything but give this a pass. That's doing consumers a disservice.
     
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  15. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Good cryptography does not rely on obscurity. I have the source code for Rijndael AES and twofish, and yet it is impossible to crack the encryption. It is also impossible to sign using strong public key encryption without the private keys. Anti-consumer features embedded in the proprietary (and likely, therefore, less secure) implementation are more likely the reason. It's already been discovered who their outsourced security partner is, in providing encryption cards for encoders, but no details of the key management, hierarchy, or trust structure are forthcoming.
    Trade secrets in this case have more to do with fake citations that use barn owl neuroscience studies to promote nonexistent features. More to prevent discovery that they are using patented-by-other spectral band replication technology to fool the ears, and know it doesn't matter anyway for content beyond the range of human hearing.
     
  16. Diamond Dog

    Diamond Dog Cautionary Example

    Progress.

    D.D.
     
  17. tootull

    tootull Looking through a glass onion

    Location:
    Canada
    hum·ble
    having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's own importance.
    "he was humble about his stature as one of rock history's most influential guitarists"

    If only...
     
  18. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    This was about YouTube adopting MQA.

    Yes - many videos on YouTube have music; yes, the video volume on YouTube is heavy. But I just cannot see that YouTube would be a good target. Surely most people playing YouTube videos are just using a PC or Smartphone with the low quality audio chain built into that device. I must be missing something.
     
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  19. soundQman

    soundQman Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    The claimed ability to reduce "time smear" after the fact in correcting recordings is the one feature of MQA that has me intrigued and willing to give it a listen at least. The idea that "authentication" is going to be used to compensate for shortcomings in ADC coding in the mastering chain seems dubious to me at best. I have trouble believing that if the major labels open their vaults to encode everything with the MQA process, that they will spend the time and money to individually tweak each recording this way. The primary emphasis, it seems to me, would be to get everything "folded" so the file sizes will be manageable for streaming and downloading. And of course to streamline inventory for the record companies to be able to sell one product for all customers, which can be used in various scenarios and setups. It's very clever from a business perspective, but I think only a limited number of recordings will even see the full benefit of the MQA process, such as with Peter McGrath's (with whom I've spoken two or three times) own recordings, for example.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  20. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Agreed. When I said that MQA was an innovative invention (many disagreed) it was this aspect of it that was foremost in my mind.
     
  21. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Both ways? Not in the slightest. I simply don’t agree with your concept of what constitutes innovation. Call your examples concrete as you please, but I disagree.

    The thread subject - your subject - was MQA. I suggest it’s best to get back to that in order to avoid threadcrapping your own thread.

    Synergistic, innovative? Nonsense. The company epitomizes the so-called high-end cable makers’ relentless emphasis on cleverly persuasive marketing and merchandising. There’s no innovation in the conglomeration of electrical/electronic technobabble used to pitch products that are nothing more than dressed-up standard wiring.

    Every writer in audio who is possessed of a critical ear and a critical eye has to learn to temporarily ignore or set aside marketing and merchandisng in order to get fully at the reality of how a particular product is constituted. If audio writers don’t do that, they’re then left to simply regurgitate without further examination all of the marketing collateral and reviewer’s guides they’re fed by the product makers. That’s not reviewing or reporting, and it’s not informative. It’s just a writer who’s acting as an extension of the product makers’ marketing departments. It’s just a writer who in many situations may not express even a single original thought about a product.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  22. cdash99

    cdash99 Senior Member

    Location:
    Mass
    And I’m sure there are dog breeding forums somewhere that consider this type of mixed breed to be a crime against nature, almost on par with some of the attacks in this thread.
     
  23. ribonucleic

    ribonucleic Forum Resident

    Location:
    SLC UT
    Their giving away the service free for 12 days over the holidays suggests the latter.
     
  24. TeflonScoundrel

    TeflonScoundrel Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    MQA offers no benefits to consumers.

    It adds costs at every step of music production and playback, which will result in higher costs to consumers. If not right now, eventually the prices will have to rise to produce more money to give MQA their cut. Their licensing fees have to come from somewhere.

    The listening comparisons I’ve been a part of have found MQA files to be either indistinguishable from or inferior to CD files. So I don’t see the release of all of the catalogs in MQA as any benefit to consumers whether some people attempt to try and label it as “hi-res” or not.

    It will limit innovation for digital hardware and software development and reduce the number of options for listening to digital music if they achieve their goal of becoming the standard of digital music.

    So to sum up: MQA offers new versions of albums we already have that either sound the same or worse and requires the purchase of new equipment that is also going to cost more because the equipment manufacturers also have to cover additional licensing costs.

    Again, there is no possible benefit to consumers that I can see. Only record labels and MQA will profit.
     
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  25. ralf11

    ralf11 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    Sideshow Bob, for your point #2 above, could you please list the neuroscience studies?

    just a regular citation; I don't need links as I can access any studies published or given at conventions, seminars or meeting abstracts

    Thank you
     
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